Evolution, yes or no?

Zarxrax · Post by **Zarxrax** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:00 pm

i just got one of my pokemon to evolve today i been training him for weeks it made me so happy

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:01 pm

Zarxrax wrote:i just got one of my pokemon to evolve today i been training him for weeks it made me so happy

So it's a fact, evolution is observable in the short term, and can be proven using the same methods that first produced this evolution.

SSJVegita0609 · Post by **SSJVegita0609** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:03 pm

The mechanism for Evolution is Natural Selection, which is based on pure logic. The idea is, if you die before repoducing, your genetic code dies with you. Long term evolution is believed to occur through isolation and bottlenecking (like Darwin's Finches). A Hurricane spread them to many different islands, some with small seeds, some with big seeds. On the islands with big seeds, only the birds with the biggest beaks were able to survive by consuming the seeds, the birds with smaller beaks died out because they couldn't fit the seeds in their beaks. Therefore, only the birds with the biggest beaks were able to reproduce, and thus a major feature of the Finches on those islands was modified as time went on. This, on a larger scale, is how longer term evoltion works. There are now many different types of finches on those islands that all evolved from a common ancestor.

I love Biology.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:11 pm

SSJVegita0609 wrote:The mechanism for Evolution is Natural Selection, which is based on pure logic. The idea is, if you die before repoducing, your genetic code dies with you. Long term evolution is believed to occur through isolation and bottlenecking (like Darwin's Finches). A Hurricane spread them to many different islands, some with small seeds, some with big seeds. On the islands with big seeds, only the birds with the biggest beaks were able to survive by consuming the seeds, the birds with smaller beaks died out because they couldn't fit the seeds in their beaks. Therefore, only the birds with the biggest beaks were able to reproduce, and thus a major feature of the Finches on those islands was modified as time went on. This, on a larger scale, is how longer term evoltion works. There are now many different types of finches on those islands that all evolved from a common ancestor.

I love Biology.

The parakeet is in the fridge again.

paizuri · Post by **paizuri** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:11 pm

SSJVegita0609 wrote:On the islands with big seeds, only the birds with the biggest beaks were able to survive by consuming the seeds, the birds with smaller beaks died out because they couldn't fit the seeds in their beaks. Therefore, only the birds with the biggest beaks were able to reproduce, and thus a major feature of the Finches on those islands was modified as time went on. This, on a larger scale, is how longer term evoltion works.

So you're saying the big-mouthed people are going to rule the world?

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:14 pm

jonmartensen wrote:Anyways, I mean evolution.

one note:

Darwin used the word evolution only once in his works. he did this because he knew that people will mistake it for progressive change, which is lamarckism (i think). by progressive change, i mean, change that is directed toward creating "higher" beings (humans, if you are to consider that humans are the superior speices). this is usually associated with large scale, near-continental change.

darwinism, or darwin evolution, is about random change at the local level.

Tab. · Post by **Tab.** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:14 pm

paizuri wrote: So you're saying the big-mouthed people are going to rule the
world?

:O

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:16 pm

That's just natural selection. They are still the same finches, with only minor topical differences (and as I said, natural selection is hardly disputable). The finches already exhibited these traits that they now posses, to one degree or another, before reproducing through several iterations weeding out the undesirable traits. Natural selection breeds out undesirable traits, but does it create new traits that did not exist before? Natural selection hinges on the desirable traits already being shared within a population before it can do its work. And can one really just scale up an idea that is appropiate under one set of conditions to a larger generalization?

How does one jump from single celled, to multi celled? How is the leap made from chemosynthesis to photosynthesis? There are large gaps to be bridged that can not be simply explained through the extension of natural selection over a longer period of time.

Lyrs · Post by **Lyrs** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:17 pm

[quote="paizuri]So you're saying the big-mouthed people are going to rule the world?

[/quote]

people who can bitch the most and best will rule the world.

El Banana · Post by **El Banana** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:18 pm

Heh, the mother of a friend of mine refuses to believe in evolution. She's an extremely devout catholic, and it is tremendously fun to watch other people try to convince her, because she refuses to accept such an idea.

No matter what people say, what she replies is something like: "how can something as grand and blah blah as a human being come from a damn, dirty ape?"