Disgusting.

Dannywilson · Post by **Dannywilson** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:09 am

Honestly, with an M-240/249, it doesn't take 45 minutes to do that. It takes about 25-30 seconds. I've fired one at a group of hardened bowling pins on the range, and it takes about 1/2 a second to turn them into matchsticks. Cinder blocks, unlessed hardened by pouring cement around metal pipes placed inside, fare about the same fate.

and correspondents found thousands of spent rounds at the scene.

How long does it take 3 M-240's to accumulate "thousands" of spent rounds? At a contant rate of cyclic fire: about 30 seconds.

These facts aren't in support of the soldiers, but more to make you question the validity of everything you read.

Simpi · Post by **Simpi** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:05 am

Here is an interesting article: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/internat ... 22,00.html

America's hidden battlefield toll

New figures reveal the true number of GIs wounded in Iraq

The true scale of American casualties in Iraq is revealed today by new figures obtained by The Observer, which show that more than 6,000 American servicemen have been evacuated for medical reasons since the beginning of the war, including more than 1,500 American soldiers who have been wounded, many seriously.

The figures will shock many Americans, who believe that casualties in the war in Iraq have been relatively light. Recent polls show that support for President George Bush and his administration's policy in Iraq has been slipping.

Read the rest from Guardians page. Same kind of news has surfaced in alternative media much earlier (and in everyone's mind who knows 'wounded' can mean a loss of limb, etc.).

digital_monk · Post by **digital_monk** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:20 am

angelx03 wrote:Dammit, why aren't the Americans pulling out of Iraq? We've done our job, and it's up to the Iraqis to decide what they want to do with their country. Very naive thinking, I know. It just doesn't make sense.

Right, but thanks to some redneck with a power trip, Iraq has 1. no infrastructure. If we left it would be like the Rodney King Riots. 2. currency not worth the paper it's printed on. 3. no means of self defence meaning that Canada could invade them, and we all know the Salvation Army could kick Canada's ass. 4. no political framework, which ideally wouldn't be bad, but the Iraqi's don't have the means to be self sufficient politically, industrially (is that a word) or economically.

Iraq is so fucked up if the United States pulled out, the whole country would end up sitting in a corner and crying.

So as much as I hate to say it, now that we're in this mess, we have to stay there and at least get the country to the point where they can price-gouge us for gas.

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:28 am

angelx03 wrote:Dammit, why aren't the Americans pulling out of Iraq? We've done our job, and it's up to the Iraqis to decide what they want to do with their country.

Except that no one, but ourselves, asked us to do this "job". That's partly (besides going in and causing a power vacuum) why we now have an obligation to Iraq, to get them back on the road to self sufficiency.

Mroni · Post by **Mroni** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:34 am

kthulhu wrote:
angelx03 wrote:Dammit, why aren't the Americans pulling out of Iraq? We've done our job, and it's up to the Iraqis to decide what they want to do with their country.
Except that no one, but ourselves, asked us to do this "job". That's partly (besides going in and causing a power vacuum) why we now have an obligation to Iraq, to get them back on the road to self sufficiency.

I agree Kthulu and the easiest way to do that is round up all the muslims and shoot them. No more problem.

Mr Oni

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:50 am

There's a lot more muslims in the world than Americans, so let's avoid more of a mess, round up all the Americans, and shoot them instead!

[/sarcasm]

***

Well, if they intend on staying, then there's nothing I can say. This isn't something I can say anything about. Hopefully, the government realizes this isn't a walk on the beach and that the violence/casualties are not gonna stop anytime soon.

One thing I do suggest is trying to hand over more power to a structure that's at least Iraqi (forget that democracy for now), and try to convince the average citizen their intentions are to make their state independent and democratic as soon as possible. Since the WMD and Terrorist pretenses have pretty well been disproved by now, the only other reason that the war started and is still valid is 'Iraqi Freedom'. I'm hoping that's going to take shape ASAP or else the American image both in Iraq and elsewhere is gonna start sliding even more.

WarpedElements · Post by **WarpedElements** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:55 am

Are you guys just now noticing these things? Read foreign newspapers more than american ones. Most of the time you get more of the truth there. We don't belong in iraq and we never did. Eventually they're gonna be fed up with and say "fuck you" and do suicide bombers a la the palestinian desert rats on Isreal, except the suicide bombers will be in the right this time.

SQ · Post by SQ » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:30 pm

"conspiracy" blah blah blah....

You wish you could rule the world.
No matter if you're in your best intentions, everyone's definition of "perfect" is different.
Therefore there is no "perfect" government.

---

Friendly fire is going to happen.
The war isn't a video game where your bullets automatically dodge your own troops or your gun magically won't shoot at them.
----

I've said it all along -- We got what we deserved on 9/11.

Org Profile · Post by **Otohiko** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:04 pm

Don't worry there MinnieMoose, I've been talking about this for years, and I do read a variety of foreign media, which I suggest to everyone out there. I wouldn't say that what's there is neccesarily true, but usually it's more true than American media in regards to Iraq, and usually you can put a credible picture together by comparing and contrasting a variety of international media.