Site layout suggestions [SPLIT from FAQ questions thread]

DriftRoot · Post by **DriftRoot** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:05 am

[Savia: This is useful stuff and worth having but separate from the parent thread, which is soliciting example questions for the new site FAQ. So I've split it into it's own thread]

I realize this is going beyond a FAQ type of thing, however it does speak to the usability of this site, which is one of the top things it’s looking like we want the FAQ to address.

Placing explanations in the FAQ section about such basic things as how to find AMVs, where to go for help, how to download AMVs etc. suggests that there is a problem with the site’s usability. The presentation of information on the pages and the hierarchy of those pages should be more than enough to allow people to get around without wondering where they are and what to do next. Visitors generally don’t expect to have to read a massive FAQ section just to figure out how a site functions and they shouldn’t have to.

Btw, I don’t “do” Web design, so I’m speaking purely as someone who – after over five years of hanging around - still hasn’t figured out why this site is laid out the way it is. It’s even crossed my mind that perhaps it’s some grand conspiracy to keep newbies out by making things far more difficult than they need to be, but I prefer not to be that pessimistic. Maybe there are not enough resources or manpower to overhaul the site, maybe there’s some kind of nostalgia thing going on that negates any discussion of updating the site…but at some point something’s gotta give. Sticking FAQ Band-Aids on problem areas in an attempt to make the site more user friendly isn’t the best solution – if anything it draws attention to those problems and makes people wonder why they aren’t being addressed appropriately.

Kalium · Post by **Kalium** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:16 am

Driftroot, I'll be blunt. No matter the site design, there will always be morons. There will always be people who cannot figure out how to handle what's right in front of them.

There's only one real rule of good site design. "Good design is hard".

DriftRoot · Post by **DriftRoot** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:00 pm

So what are you saying, this site breaks the rule? Ignores the rule? Can't follow the rules?

I know there's always going to be morons, if everyone who finds the navigational structure of this site a little odd is a moron, then I guess that makes me one. ^_^

Just as example's then:

Why is the main menu below the member's menu when you're logged in? It's the MAIN MENU, it belongs at the top of the screen in a prominent position, not at the bottom in a location that literally requires me to scroll down a ways before I can even see it. Someone new here would probably get a little freaked out - where did the main menu go?? How do I search for AMVs - the main menu disappeared?!

Why are the global stats in such a prominent position on the member's main page? That is prime real estate...and you're using it for a block of global stats that don't mean much to the average member?

Why is the new vid on the block list stuck way down at the bottom? Are new videos honestly less important than the banner ad contest or new journal entries? Is this a code issue? I suspect there's a workaround.

Why are my alerts way at the bottom of the screen?? The only way for me to reap the benefits of alerts is to remember that they exist and go down and see what's there (which I often don't remember to do). That's like a cell phone that doesn't let you know you have any voice messages unless you actually go into your mailbox to see if you have some. Put the alerts where they can best alert me, please!

...And the list goes on. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I say this site's usability is not up to par. These kinds of "little" things add up quickly and contribute to the sense that this site is far more confusing than it needs to be.

LivingFlame · Post by **LivingFlame** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:08 pm

DriftRoot wrote:Why is the new vid on the block list stuck way down at the bottom? Are new videos honestly less important than the banner ad contest or new journal entries?

I agree with everything you said except this (sort of). I guess this is wholly a matter of opinion, though. I'd much rather look at the banner contest than download a new video that may well be horrible. Any more, I typically don't download anything that isn't either top 10%, top star rating, or in an announcement thread. Maybe that's just me, though.

I won't say anything about journal entries because I don't even really know what their purpose is, which I suppose is a problem in itself. :\

Some of the layout could certainly use tweaking though. It took some poking around to finally figure out how to submit a banner. /:

DriftRoot · Post by **DriftRoot** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:55 pm

LivingFlame wrote: I won't say anything about journal entries because I don't even really know what their purpose is, which I suppose is a problem in itself. :\

hehe, I can come up with theories...but I won't. Meanwhile I'll just use and abuse that particular member benefit because I have more fun with that than all the rest of this site combined.

In any case, I want to reiterate that there's probably (I would hope) a valid explanation for why this site was set up the way it was and why it looks and acts like it does today. Can it be better, though? Yes. Should attempts be made to try and make it better? That's what this thread is aiming to do, so yes. Are the resources available to do so? I don't know, but apparently some of them are or this FAQ topic wouldn't have come up. *shrug*

Ok, I'll stop sidetracking the thread now. /me goes back to her journal

Unlimited Rice · Post by **Unlimited Rice** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:53 pm

LivingFlame wrote:
DriftRoot wrote:Why is the new vid on the block list stuck way down at the bottom? Are new videos honestly less important than the banner ad contest or new journal entries?
I agree with everything you said except this (sort of). I guess this is wholly a matter of opinion, though. I'd much rather look at the banner contest than download a new video that may well be horrible. Any more, I typically don't download anything that isn't either top 10%, top star rating, or in an announcement thread. Maybe that's just me, though.

I thought this was AnimeMusicVideos.org not AnimeMusicVideoBanners.org.

Anyways, you're free to be as picky as you want about what videos you download, I just don't see how New Vid of the Block has to be brushed aside just b/c you're more likely to see videos that may not be so good, or just really bad.

Just something to think about.

LivingFlame · Post by **LivingFlame** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:03 pm

Unlimited Rice wrote:I thought this was AnimeMusicVideos.org not AnimeMusicVideoBanners.org.

Anyways, you're free to be as picky as you want about what videos you download, I just don't see how New Vid of the Block has to be brushed aside just b/c you're more likely to see videos that may not be so good, or just really bad.

Just something to think about.

1) That's why I said it's entirely a matter of opinion. It is AnimeMusicVideos.org, but I also think it's interesting to see people's artistic sides that don't fall under the umbrella of AMVs.

2) If the creator of the New Vid on the Block really wants their work to be seen, why don't they come post it in an Announcement thread? If they're going to contribute, they might as well come to the forum and be part of the community, even if they don't become "regulars."

Believe me, if that little, tiny box got moved to the top of the page, I wouldn't complain about it. It isn't actually that big of a deal to me. I just like the Banner Contest.

---------------------------

Zomg, I'm actually going to be ON-TOPIC?!

LivingFlame wrote:I won't say anything about journal entries because I don't even really know what their purpose is, which I suppose is a problem in itself. :\

On that note:

Q: What is the Journal? / What is the purpose of Journal entries? / How does the Journal work?

A: ???

DriftRoot · Post by **DriftRoot** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:44 pm

LivingFlame wrote: On that note:

Q: What is the Journal? / What is the purpose of Journal entries? / How does the Journal work?

A: ???

A: It's what blogging about AMVs was before every Tom, Dick & Harry knew what blogging was, thought it was cool or went nuts with their own little Wordpress havens.

It is, as far as I can tell, a way for site members to record their thoughts often - but not necessarily always - relating to AMVs. Some people have public journal entries, some people have private ones, some people rant and rave about stuff that only they would ever give a s*** about (me), other people deliberately seek to communicate with other members (me), still other people make nonsensical commentary which no one but they can understand (me).

Is the journal a donator's only function? I'm not sure, I'm a donator so it's always been there for me to use...anyways, I go onto the member's main page, hit "My Journal" ion the left, then "New Entry". I then write a bunch of nonsense and hit post and watch my reputation for being excessively fond of the written word go up a notch.

So now back to the real topic at hand, because you just know I wasn't done with it. Many thanks to Savia for taking me seriously (I think you are, anyways...).

Making an exhaustive run down about every "problem" I find on this site is overkill, I already mentioned a few quirks on just on one page that might bear looking into. Instead, I'm going to throw out a few things that I'd really like to get off my chest which may get the ball rolling and spark interest/other ideas. Please bear in mind that I understand the ripple effects of making fundamental changes to an existing system (such as Web sites). I know very well that you can’t snap your fingers and implement such changes without first looking long and hard at the big picture. Perhaps what I’m going to suggest is not feasible for a-m-v.org – I don’t know, but until someone In Charge says so and I believe them, I'm going to operate on the assumption that my suggestions are neither ridiculous nor out of the question.

My #1 general observation, which encompasses just about every area of this site (excluding the forums) is that a-m-v.org has layout issues. It's very much about vertical spaces - menus go up and down, data goes up and down – and consequently it requires a lot of scrolling to get around. In many cases there is too much information jammed onto one page, causing it to become unnecessarily long (provoking scrolling). A few specific negative effects I previously noted, like important menus and alerts winding up literally offscreen. These kinds of problems suggest that there are underlying layout flaws which could be addressed by updating the site with – for starters – a menu bar of some kind permanently at the top. Imagine what THAT would do in terms of a ripple effect...the possibilities are fantastic!

Let's digress a little more about the opportunities to streamline the site. To recap, right now too much information is trying to be crammed onto too few pages, there's not a lot of rhyme or reason to the way some things are laid out and the site itself doesn't seem very efficient. One huge and very basic step forward would be to create separate areas for different subject matter (see below for more on this) and - obviously - implement an effective and user-friendly system for navigating through it all (see above for main menu ripple effect). A snapshot example of the disorganization I'm talking about would be site statistics - everything from donation levels to uploaded videos are currently scattered all over the place, often taking up way too much room. It's kind of crazy, really.

So now for something a little less general that might not require a complete site overhaul: please, please PLEASE can we have a more centralized method for exploring the AMVs found on this site. This is #1 on my wish list and probably the #1 thing that would give a massive boost to the site’s usability. Currently the “Search for AMVs” item is nowhere near the specialized lists (Top 10%/Top Star, etc.), nor do those specialized lists immediately jump out as a great way of finding AMVs because they’re just kind of sitting there out in the middle of nowhere, surrounded by other menus which bear no relation to them. Clicking on “Search for AMVs” brings you to yet another screen with even more options, etc. How about having ONE menu, or just one section of the site completely devoted to accessing the database? (see above rant about streamlining).

And keep those big menu options available at all times! For example - don’t make people have to go all the way back out to their member’s page to access the Top 10% list or the search function. I want the door to the database in "front" of me and accessible at all times - it's why this site exists, after all - just like I want links to my Member's Page, the forum, the FAQ (or maybe "Help" would be a better alternative - that could put the guides, the FAQ and probably a few other things into one tidy place) and some other areas right where I can see them no matter where I am on the site (main meeeenu baaaarrr...)!

*pant pant pant*

ok, I think I've poured enough gunpowder for one day...

godix · Post by **godix** » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:13 pm

First off, don't expect anything to get done. Not to trash the admins but this is as much a hobby thing for them as it is for us. Odds are a total site redesign would take just too much of their time to consider. By their I mean 'his' since AFAIK doki's the only one who really works on site code and the like.

As to suggestions -

I'd suggest a simple priority method here. First would be relevant admin messages. Not the 'check your spam filter' or 'calling all programmers' permanent messages but stuff like the temp VCA front page messages.

The site is for uploading and finding AMVs and anything other than that is secondary. So the links and boxes directly related to amvs (search, upload, new vids on the block, and top lists basically. Maybe guides as well) should be the first things one the site.

After that I'd suggest the alerts. To get any alerts a user has to specifically ask to see it, it's probably safe to assume they consider it important enough it shouldn't be buried at bottom of the page.

Following that would be the features in order of most used. Forums, journal, banners, everything else. Daily upload stats should probably get shoved into the global stats because frankly I doubt enough people care to justify taking up front page real estate.

But really my main complaint about the site is those damned menus really need some collapsing. My profile view, My alerts, My downloads, My favorite vids, My banners, Edit my profile, and Edit my videos could be combined into a submenu under a choice of 'It's all about MEEEE!' or something. Because honestly, is any of that stuff stuff you regularly go to much less important enough to be the top things on the menu? Similarly we don't need separate entries for opinions received and opinions given, collapse into one entry labeled opinions. My Journal, My journal buddies, and new journal entry could go into one submenu. Donations have 3 entries on the members menu, sounds like another submenu opportunity there. Hardware and software reviews should just be ditched since they're mostly out of date, or at best shoved into the guides section. Similarly useful files should be tossed, the only useful file in it is amvamp and that should probably stay only linked in the guide so only people actively reading what it does know where to get it. Newsletters and interviews could be combined. VCA should be in the contest lists instead of a separate item. Enter new video and upload new video should be combined. Members Main Menu just doesn't need to be there at all on the front page, and even for other pages it does the same thing as the clickable 'members menu' label does. Doing these things would cut the front page menu in half, from 31 items currently to 14 items.

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:34 am

http://code.ninjawedding.org/amv-org-design-test/

This is a front page, intended to optimize the process of finding videos.

It is intentionally dead simple, and I don't plan on adding much more content to it. (At least not without argument.) Graphics and fonts, however, are very much up for discussion.

I don't think the right way to treat the problem of FAQ proliferation is to somehow organize the site so that all the questions can be easily answered. The right way, I think, is to re-organize everything to minimize or eliminate the need for those Qs.

Anyway, here's the cool thing: You don't have to go along with my whims!

The HTML and images are available in a Git repository at http://code.ninjawedding.org/amv-org-design-test.git. Clone it and design away.