A forum for newbies?

[JaddziaDax]

we also have a different breed of people out there helping the newbs who ask questions... when i joined the site i wouldn't go on the forums for over a year because this place has a reputation.. apparently that reputation is disappearing because we have people who don't know its a scary scary place :3 not to mention theres people like me, tarant, scintilla, bauzi, post-it and several others that are there just willing to help people...

and you have people like me who tell newbs to be sure to look around the forums first before posting their question because it may have been answered before.

as i told someone once, if you are sick of answering the same question over and over again, then leave it to someone who doesn't mind or isn't burnt out on it.

[godix]

we also have a different breed of people out there helping the newbs who ask questions... when i joined the site i wouldn't go on the forums for over a year because this place has a reputation.. apparently that reputation is disappearing because we have people who don't know its a scary scary place :3 not to mention theres people like me, tarant, scintilla, bauzi, post-it and several others that are there just willing to help people...

So in other words we can blame the noobs on you and the solution is more people like me?

[Kionon]

we also have a different breed of people out there helping the newbs who ask questions... when i joined the site i wouldn't go on the forums for over a year because this place has a reputation.. apparently that reputation is disappearing because we have people who don't know its a scary scary place :3 not to mention theres people like me, tarant, scintilla, bauzi, post-it and several others that are there just willing to help people...

I'm genuinely hurt you left me out, considering the evidence around the forums my help is demonstrable.

and you have people like me who tell newbs to be sure to look around the forums first before posting their question because it may have been answered before.

I acknowledged that a great many of us link the guides and stickies. I've written them. I don't feel that's enough.

as i told someone once, if you are sick of answering the same question over and over again, then leave it to someone who doesn't mind or isn't burnt out on it.

I think you're missing our point. I am not tired, I do not mind, and I am not burnt out. One quick look at my sticky should tell you that. If I was lazy, we wouldn't be having this discussion. If I was unwilling to put in my time, often, and repeatedly, and with little recognition, I wouldn't. Make your jokes about "AMVs r serious bizness," but I tend to believe that I have an obligation to my art form, and to its community. I was really hoping others would feel the same way.

I really, honestly, believe that there is this sense that our suggestions are to promote some elitist structure, when that's the exact opposite of our intent. I'm not sure where this is coming from, but it's an inaccurate estimation of our reasoning. The whole point is to be more inclusive without compromising community standards. I want the newbies to learn, edit, and stay to become contributing members. I don't want them to try to learn, get limited help they barely understand, edit something not to our standards, get harshly criticized, and then leave. I see that happen every day. Every single day. I want to help stop it, it does us no good as a community. It just re-enforces our own egos, and how awesome inner circle is.

I think instruction-to-contribution process can be streamlined, and that community-wide our current tactics are failing. That we can do more to direct, instruct, educate, and promote without allowing pure mayhem in the medium. There must be steps we can take as a community to lift all of us up. We're coming under the spotlight, folks. People are paying attention now. Let's rise to the occasion, I say.

[BasharOfTheAges]

You're still not going beyond "these people are slow, we should be more accepting of people that want to be coddled and hold their hands throughout the process." There are plenty of people here that resent that (obviously i'm one of them) and firmly believe that there are people that shouldn't be helped if they don't put forth some of their own effort.

New people today aren't any more or less in need of help than people that joined when you or I joined. More guides, stickies, and repeated advice is available now than it was last year, the year before, or 5 years ago. It's socially irresponsible to make things easier for people simply because they have grown up having everything handed to them. There should be a hurdle or two to overcome as a standard - that's what makes accomplishments actually mean something.

[Kionon]

You're still not going beyond "these people are slow, we should be more accepting of people that want to be coddled and hold their hands throughout the process." There are plenty of people here that resent that (obviously i'm one of them) and firmly believe that there are people that shouldn't be helped if they don't put forth some of their own effort.

Really, because I think I said I think we're letting them off the hook. We coddle them now. They've expressed an interest, and then we turn around ignore it. We tell them whatever they do is okay by our silence. Local is chock full of stuff we would have panned immediately if announced properly. Why are we letting such stuff waste our money?

I say we don't let them off the hook. I say we make them work for it. I guess we just have different ideas of what "working for it" means. I don't think that the newbie who reads all the guides but gets no one on one attention from the org members is going to be any better off than the newbie that doesn't read the guides and gets no one on one attention from the org members. However, the newbie that gets attention without reading the guides is much more likely to read the guides or be shown to be a troll. Either way, the community benefits.

New people today aren't any more or less in need of help than people that joined when you or I joined. More guides, stickies, and repeated advice is available now than it was last year, the year before, or 5 years ago.

I disagree based on the steep learning curve to even clue into the community back when I started. It gets easier to clue in with each passing day. I came at AMVs with the experience of having edited TV content on a Play Trinity, and many editors that inspired me learned all they could about A/B deck editing before trying their hand at non-linear. We have people who can upload to youtube that can't program a VCR... oh wait, they don't remember what a VCR looks like! Let alone something like the JVC SVHS decks involved in the original version of my Arima to Miyazawa! No, Bashar, I'm afraid I simply think you're wrong in this case. We had more skills coming in. We needed less help. We're responsible for the standards as they exist today. Read the rules? Man, we wrote the book! So let's not be surprised when newbies don't understand our book without the knowledge it took us to write it in the first place.

It's socially irresponsible to make things easier for people simply because they have grown up having everything handed to them. There should be a hurdle or two to overcome as a standard - that's what makes accomplishments actually mean something.

I am suggesting hurdles. I called them toll booths. But whatever analogy you use, the idea is the same. I'm not suggesting hand-outs. I'm suggesting education. The two are very different. If education doesn't make tasks easier, then tell me, Bashar, what's the point of it? Instruction, plus practice, makes skills easier to perform. And teaching others should make life easier on them. That's not taking away personal responsibility, that's just being a good neighbor!

I feel like I'm arguing as a social liberal, instead of an editor, to a social conservative, instead of an editor. How odd. 0_o!! I'm curious whether or not our views would be the same if we were discussing the modern welfare state...

[BasharOfTheAges]

Possible alternative - if we're not getting our frustration through by simply posting REA.DFAG, how about having form-responses that not only explain that a person's problem is clearly described elsewhere but also links to the ungodly number of threads that have been about the same topic in the past few months, a link to the search function, links to pages on forum etiquette Re: lurking and reading, links to clearly marked images of stickies circled with big red arrows pointing at the sticky, and a calm, level headed explanation as to how their post was unnecessary followed by a thread lock for redundancy.

Also - a flash video was mentioned before... something like this? http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

[Kionon]

how about having form-responses that not only explain that a person's problem is clearly described elsewhere but also links to the ungodly number of threads that have been about the same topic in the past few months, a link to the search function, links to pages on forum etiquette Re: lurking and reading, links to clearly marked images of stickies circled with big red arrows pointing at the sticky, and a calm, level headed explanation as to how their post was unnecessary followed by a thread lock for redundancy.

Nice. If we could set it up to force-play on registration without the ability to skip, I bet that would help! I still think said registration should immediately move the registeree to a welcome forum, but this is definitely the start of something good.

[JaddziaDax]

we could always play "hide the link" :3 to make them read the site rules and such.

[Zarxrax]

I'm too lazy to read all this crap, but here's what I think.

A newbie forum would be a good idea. Until a user has made maybe 10 posts, this forum should be HIGHLIGHTED in the forum list.

This forum could also serve some other useful purposes, such as containing a master list of sticky threads.

[Kionon]

I'm too lazy to read all this crap, but here's what I think.

A newbie forum would be a good idea. Until a user has made maybe 10 posts, this forum should be HIGHLIGHTED in the forum list.

This forum could also serve some other useful purposes, such as containing a master list of sticky threads.

That was basically my vision. An immediate, in your face, one stop shop.