Motherboards

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Quu
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Motherboards

Post by Quu » Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:22 pm

what is the most stable modern motherboard...

the only caveat is it must have built in USB 2.0

would it be a 845GE based pentium 4 celleron
or maybe a KT333A based athealon

I am not looking for best performance... since all the CPU will be doing is running the operating system.... dedicated hardware will handle all playback, and hardware raid cards will do the subsystsm

I am looking for stable, cool, and usb 2.0 (firewire would be a nice bonus... but not critical)
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mckeed
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Post by mckeed » Mon Apr 07, 2003 2:56 pm

check toms hardware.....there were some reviews of mb's with integrated usb 2.0 and firewire plus lots of other stuff....they are new and athlon based/DDR, so they are expensive. Probally not what you are looking for. But take a look.

I never really thought about a motherboard itself being unstable. How would you be able to tell if its a bad motherboard or a bad program or bad OS?
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Quu
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Post by Quu » Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:10 pm

i ken tell a bad motherboard by how often a new bios update comes out and how it fairs at a con... when being used in a hot room for hours on end...

i think that is why i am leaning twords a celeron for this... since they run nice and cool
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Post by mckeed » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:17 pm

yeah....though a 533 celeron that i put in my server runs hotter than my pentium III 600 slot 1....go figure.
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AbsoluteDestiny
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Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Tue Apr 08, 2003 2:05 am

Anandtech is the place for motherboard reviews - and they do stress tests on all their motherboards:

for usb2 845GE based, see this:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.html?i=1725&p=5

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jbone
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Post by jbone » Tue Apr 08, 2003 7:22 am

Dammit, Dave and Ian, you stole my suggestions. :cry:
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Post by dwchang » Tue Apr 08, 2003 10:35 am

Quu wrote:i ken tell a bad motherboard by how often a new bios update comes out and how it fairs at a con... when being used in a hot room for hours on end...

i think that is why i am leaning twords a celeron for this... since they run nice and cool
Now of course I'm gonna be fairly bias working at AMD and would definitely suggest an AMD product, however, if given only the choice of an Intel Product, I would definitely stay clear of the Celeron. The Celeron is well...to be honest, a piece of crap. It's really cheap, but you pay for what you get. If you buy an Intel chip, I'd strongly suggest the Pentium III. It's architecture if superior to the Celeron (and Pentium IV for that matter), it runs at a lower voltage and it's cool.

Now if you want an AMD product well...we can talk more :) :) :)
-Daniel
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Post by FurryCurry » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:42 pm

A few peanut gallery comments here:

The Celeron is crap. These days, the Celeron is nothing more than a cache-crippled P4, and not worth your time or interest.

While the KT333 and KT400 are the best, most stable chipsets VIA has yet produced, they still have some issues with PCI bus throughput, which is possibly a critical factor for you, since it sounds like you will be using a dedicated video processing PCI card to do most of the work. Intel's implementation of the PCI and AGP standards is just plain better than VIA's, and you will likely get better PCI transfer speeds, and better stability as the PCI bus approches saturation with the Intel chipset. (Note that this is no fault of AMD, it's just the way things are, with VIA being the supplier of the majority of AMD compatible chipsets)

The P4 also excels at handling streaming data types like video, and has better heat related failsafes in hardware (again, quite possibly the fault of the chipset maker)

ANY up to date mobo chipset/processor is going to run somewhat hot, and a case with excellent cooling (like Coolermaster) and a really good PSU like an Antec Smart Power 550 is the best defense.

If you really want an up-to-date system, I'd suggest investigating mobos based on Intel's new 7205 (Granite Bay) chipset. They are still pricey, but all I've seen feature at least 6 USB 2 ports, onboard gigabit ethernet, and most have forward-looking features like Serial ATA/RAID options. They also feature dual channel DDR memory, which is supposedly significantly faster than single channel DDR, although the benefits currently seem minor at best. If that seems excessive, then I'd recommend an 845 based system.

I do most of my computing on this KT333/AXP2200 system, as it handles the large amount of multitasking I do beautifully, but I do my editing on an i850/P4 2.53/RAMBUS based system, and it noticably spanks the Athlon when using vdub, etc.
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Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:55 pm

Remember the focus here is stability and usb2 compatibility not whether an individual processor is good or not.

Although I'm an AMD fan, I can't recommend either via or nvidia for motherboard solutions when absolute stability is the key. VIA have improved but they still have issues (and regular software updates, which is also something that isn't wanted) and the nforce2 boards... well, can anyone say the magic words "bios corruption"?

As for other AMD chipsets of note... well, there aren't any on a consumer level really (bar some nice dual boards but again stability has to be key)

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Post by AbsoluteDestiny » Tue Apr 08, 2003 3:59 pm

To reiterate:

Remember all the actual operations that this machine will do will be hardware so the processor speed really isnt important at all. Nor is memory speed - it's all about a stable usb2 motherboard cpu combo.

Chilliness is a good prerequisite for stability, hence the intel chipset and a slowish celeron.

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Post by FurryCurry » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:53 pm

I did drift a bit there, but stability was the core of my argument, particularly with regard to intel's superior PCI implementation.

I also believe their USB implementation and stability is better.
I can plug my scanner into the USB2 port on this KT333, and it's recognized quickly and works fine. If I plug my digital camera into the same port, it will hardlock the machine so badly, it needs to be powered off to be rebooted. I have had no problems with this camera on any of my other (all non-VIA) systems. I could go looking all over for a bios or driver update that would let it work, but I'm not inclined to bother, since Photoshop is on the other box anyway.

Combine this experience with strange USB problems on older VIA chipsets and my nForce 1 system as well, and I'm inclined to trust Intel chipsets for best of class usb compatibility.

Let's take a look at the prices of some of the P4 based Celerons vs. P4's: (tere is no such thing as a modern motherboard that supports the P3 based Celeron.)

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.a ... 14&order=1

Cel 1.8g retail: $68.00
Cel 2.0g retail: $82.50
Cel 2.2g retail: $99.00
Cel 2.4g retail: $145.00

P4 1.8g/ retail: $130.00 (400fsb)
P4 2.4g/ retail: $163.00 (533fsb)

I'd go for either end of the spectrum.
Either the cheapest Celeron, for low price and heat production, or the P4 2.4 for the price/performance sweetness.
Because the 2.4 P4 is based on the Northwood core, it produces less heat at a given clockspeed that the oplder design, so I have to wonder just how much less heat the Celerons put out.

Either way, an Intel system is the way I'd go for stability.

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Post by dwchang » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:53 pm

AbsoluteDestiny wrote:To reiterate:

Remember all the actual operations that this machine will do will be hardware so the processor speed really isnt important at all. Nor is memory speed - it's all about a stable usb2 motherboard cpu combo.

Chilliness is a good prerequisite for stability, hence the intel chipset and a slowish celeron.
Well like I said earlier, the Pentium III core runs at a fairly cool temperature. This is probably b/c the core voltage is significantly less than that of a Pentium IV core. Then again, I don't work there and am just stating what I hear.

As for AMD motherboards, I'm at least glad that we don't manufacture or design these (obviously nvidia, tyan, via, etc. do) :). I won't totally comment on the stability issue on Via MBs since well...I hate to say it, but I don't know. I don't work in systems engineering (which works with Via/Tyan/nVidia, etc.) and can't say anything as "truth." All I know is that I love my Tyan MPX 760 :). However, I have *heard* that the Soyo Dragon (I think that's the name) is a good MB...although that isn't at all related since it's more of a performance board (400 Mhz memory, raid, etc.).

Now if you have issues with your T-bred BX or Bartons...I'm the right person to talk to...although I don't know how much of that I could even tell you :).

I guess I'll look into this some time since I have a friend in systems and see what MB he suggests.
-Daniel
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Post by dwchang » Tue Apr 08, 2003 4:56 pm

FurryCurry wrote:Let's take a look at the prices of some of the P4 based Celerons vs. P4's: (tere is no such thing as a modern motherboard that supports the P3 based Celeron.)
Good point, although I wasn't referring to the celerons. I think we can all agree that Celerons are POS. I guess my architecture background was blinding me from well..the point of the thread :). I just think the P3 arch. is far superior to the P4 arch. hence the "point." Oops! I bet it'd be hard to find a P3 MB with USB2 :-P.
furrycurry wrote:Either way, an Intel system is the way I'd go for stability.
Bah...so says you :-P....
-Daniel
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Post by FurryCurry » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:09 pm

dwchang wrote: However, I have *heard* that the Soyo Dragon (I think that's the name) is a good MB...although that isn't at all related since it's more of a performance board (400 Mhz memory, raid, etc.).
Interestingly enough, the mobo here in my main system that chokes on my digicam is a KT333 equipped Soyo Dragon Ultra platinum. :?

Other than that, it's a pretty stable system, barring the odd bit of unrepeatable weirdness, some of which is probably software caused.

I don't dislike AMD based systems at all, and they outnumbered my intel system 3:1 until my Tiger duallie died. (now two of each, counting my laptop)

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Post by dwchang » Tue Apr 08, 2003 5:14 pm

FurryCurry wrote:
dwchang wrote: However, I have *heard* that the Soyo Dragon (I think that's the name) is a good MB...although that isn't at all related since it's more of a performance board (400 Mhz memory, raid, etc.).
Interestingly enough, the mobo here in my main system that chokes on my digicam is a KT333 equipped Soyo Dragon Ultra platinum. :?

Other than that, it's a pretty stable system, barring the odd bit of unrepeatable weirdness, some of which is probably software caused.

I don't dislike AMD based systems at all, and they outnumbered my intel system 3:1 until my Tiger duallie died. (now two of each, counting my laptop)
Yeah I've *heard* about the USB problem. I've occassionally had it with my Tyan board, but I don't see that as a major stability thing for myself (although for Quu's specific goal it might be). I wanted a cheap dual solution and this provides it with very little problems.

However, I would like to point out that there is no PERFECT board. AMD (and Intel for that matter) don't design the boards or do the verification. A *much* smaller company does it and in most cases, a non-US company (not to say that their work is worse or whatnot though...PLEASE don't misinterpret). They just don't have the resources to perfect a motherboard. We (intel and AMD) help them along, but we don't design it and all that. I'm very happy to see that no one is blaming us on this thread :).

Your dual tyan died? I'm sorry. I would be very sad if that happened. I love my $2000.00 heater :-P (it heats up the immediate area around 4 - 5 degrees b/c of the excess heat).
-Daniel
Newest Video: Through the Years and Far Away aka Sad Girl in Space

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