Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

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Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by TeclmmlEd » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:35 am

Hey guys I have been out of the editing game for quite a while now and was picking it back up. I am so confused with all of the new versions of the programs I was so used to using back 2-3 years ago.

I still got ripping the DVD down so I must be starting off right :)

I get very confused when I get to Virtualdubmod. I have followed the AMVapp and zarxrax tutorial videos (http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/zarxfag/) and they both seem to be outdated in some form like with virtualdub being version 1.5 in the videos and the latest version is like 1.9. There is no more script editor like there was in 1.5 to be able to re-size the videos. I have seen the filters re-size option in version 1.9 but it doesn't do the same stuff as script editing. Am I missing something here? Also following exact steps of the video guide my FPS was completely off from what it should have been at the end of the tutorial where it said your FPS should be around 23,24,25...mine was 19 something.

Ok so lets say even after that and I want to export my footage from virtualdub the quality was not as good as I had hoped. I have seen plenty of videos where the quality is SUPERB on this site. Most of them are compressed in H264 format. I am not sure if this even has anything to do with it being superb quality wise as it is to compress the quality.

Someone please point me in the right direction...I have been out of the game for a while but am ready to play again :)

Thank you,

- Tec

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by mirkosp » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:52 am

You should use the AVTECH v3 instead of the zarxfag. It's somewhat more recent and insightful.
Anyway, to edit the AVS scripts you can use AvsP now, which is a better solution than vdubmod's script editor. More on AvsP here. It also tells about avisynth, but you should remember about it. As for H.264 encoding, get the latest zarxgui (v1.3 is the most recent atm) and have a read. ;)
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by TeclmmlEd » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:57 am

mirkosp wrote:You should use the AVTECH v3 instead of the zarxfag. It's somewhat more recent and insightful.
Anyway, to edit the AVS scripts you can use AvsP now, which is a better solution than vdubmod's script editor. More on AvsP here. It also tells about avisynth, but you should remember about it. As for H.264 encoding, get the latest zarxgui (v1.3 is the most recent atm) and have a read. ;)
Awesome thank you for the fast response. My only question is...I ripped a whole DVD that's a good 2 hours long and I just need specific segments of it so I would usually export them as AVI files from virtualdub...now is it just with the zarx264gui that people export their clips? Or is that just for the finished project from your editing software? Like where is a guide for how to make your clips for your editing software (for me it would be Adobe CS4).

Anything like that?

- Tec

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by mirkosp » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:30 am

You can still make the clips from virtualdub. Just import the avs scripts once you're done with the filtering and trim the clips that you need, you still have job control and everything. Or you could trim in avisynth and use virtualdub just to export. Tipically, you use zarxgui just for the final distro copy.
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by Zarxrax » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:01 am

Hmm, I thought I had the zarxfag taken down. Yea, those are outdated.

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by TeclmmlEd » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:39 pm

mirkosp wrote:You can still make the clips from virtualdub. Just import the avs scripts once you're done with the filtering and trim the clips that you need, you still have job control and everything. Or you could trim in avisynth and use virtualdub just to export. Tipically, you use zarxgui just for the final distro copy.
Ok but when I export as avi I still do not get as good quality as original. How do I export avi and get PERFECT quality? I am doing compression in Logarith lossless codec...am I not supposed to be? Is that what brings down the quality? Also how do you resize and get the right FPS in Vdub now without the script editor?
Zarxrax wrote:Hmm, I thought I had the zarxfag taken down. Yea, those are outdated.
FAIL! :P

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by mirkosp » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:09 pm

TeclmmlEd wrote:
mirkosp wrote:You can still make the clips from virtualdub. Just import the avs scripts once you're done with the filtering and trim the clips that you need, you still have job control and everything. Or you could trim in avisynth and use virtualdub just to export. Tipically, you use zarxgui just for the final distro copy.
Ok but when I export as avi I still do not get as good quality as original. How do I export avi and get PERFECT quality? I am doing compression in Logarith lossless codec...am I not supposed to be? Is that what brings down the quality?
Lagarith should be fine. However, Premiere can fuck up the export, so the safest thing is setting the codec to None. While an uncompressed encode weighs much more than a lossless compressed one, lossless export from premiere could or could not work out, living you with all sorts of garbage on the video. Another thing that might cause issues could be having previews saved. Premiere might be trying to convert the previews instead of the files themselves, although I am not sure that actually happens at all, and is just a guess.
Also how do you resize and get the right FPS in Vdub now without the script editor?
You can resize, changefps, and filter directly in the avs script from within AvsP. Basically, instead of using the script editor of virtualdub, you now a standalone program that is better for that purpose. The syntax is still the same so it would be:

Code: Select all

spline36resize(width,height)
for resizing to your desired width and height. As for FPS changes, you probably don't want to make any. If you have a progressive input, then keep it like that. If you have a full field interlaced source, you'd just deinterlace or bob (depending on what exactly your source would be best off with). If the stream is telecined then you IVTC, thus bringing the framerate back to the original progressive due to the decimation.
The only cases I can imagine for a framerate change would be when dealing with PAL footage that was speeded up, such as progressive PAL that was speeded up from 23.976 to 25 directly, or telecined pal, which was 23.976 speeded up to 24 and then telecined to 25. Most of the time, though, that's not the occasion, but in case of speeded up footage, then you'd have to slow it back down, so the command you'll want to use is:

Code: Select all

assumefps(framerate)
Most likely with that framerate being a "ntsc_film" (double quote around the name included).
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by TeclmmlEd » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:08 pm

mirkosp wrote:
TeclmmlEd wrote:
mirkosp wrote:You can still make the clips from virtualdub. Just import the avs scripts once you're done with the filtering and trim the clips that you need, you still have job control and everything. Or you could trim in avisynth and use virtualdub just to export. Tipically, you use zarxgui just for the final distro copy.
Ok but when I export as avi I still do not get as good quality as original. How do I export avi and get PERFECT quality? I am doing compression in Logarith lossless codec...am I not supposed to be? Is that what brings down the quality?
Lagarith should be fine. However, Premiere can fuck up the export, so the safest thing is setting the codec to None. While an uncompressed encode weighs much more than a lossless compressed one, lossless export from premiere could or could not work out, living you with all sorts of garbage on the video. Another thing that might cause issues could be having previews saved. Premiere might be trying to convert the previews instead of the files themselves, although I am not sure that actually happens at all, and is just a guess.
Also how do you resize and get the right FPS in Vdub now without the script editor?
You can resize, changefps, and filter directly in the avs script from within AvsP. Basically, instead of using the script editor of virtualdub, you now a standalone program that is better for that purpose. The syntax is still the same so it would be:

Code: Select all

spline36resize(width,height)
for resizing to your desired width and height. As for FPS changes, you probably don't want to make any. If you have a progressive input, then keep it like that. If you have a full field interlaced source, you'd just deinterlace or bob (depending on what exactly your source would be best off with). If the stream is telecined then you IVTC, thus bringing the framerate back to the original progressive due to the decimation.
The only cases I can imagine for a framerate change would be when dealing with PAL footage that was speeded up, such as progressive PAL that was speeded up from 23.976 to 25 directly, or telecined pal, which was 23.976 speeded up to 24 and then telecined to 25. Most of the time, though, that's not the occasion, but in case of speeded up footage, then you'd have to slow it back down, so the command you'll want to use is:

Code: Select all

assumefps(framerate)
Most likely with that framerate being a "ntsc_film" (double quote around the name included).
Ok well here is what I got so far. Here is the information I got from DGMPGDec...http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2231/d2vinfo.png

I am using Star Wars A New Hope as my footage so it is a Cinema Film which in the guide says will almost always be progressive.

After reading the guide it said if it was FILM 95% or higher than I would have to put the settings as FORCED FILM which I did and saved again. I found out my film was progressive so I did not need any interlacing (I also looked through the film and analyzed it carefully). Frame rate = 23.976 so everything looks good there.

Now next reading the guide and dealing with aspect ratios (http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/ ... atios.html), I have an Entirely 16:9 Anamorphic Sources if I am correct as I did not interlace or anything and I am sure it is NTSC Footage. The settings say Add Spline36Resize(848,480) to the end of your avisynth scripts and so I did. My script at the moment looks like this:

mpeg2source("C:\Users\Edwin\Desktop\Ripped Files\A New Hope.d2v",cpu=4)
Spline36Resize(848,480)
ConvertToYV12()

I am editing with the AVS file directly into adobe and when I import the footage the borders are black for some reason and I tried cropping in the AVS script and it doesn't seem to change. (http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1673/whyborders.jpg)

Ok reading the review somewhere it said put ConvertToYV12() at the end but I remember reading somewhere else saying put RGB something so that may be a problem?

Blah I keep messing up. I was using some filters but it does not look so good on LIVE ACTION films I think unless I am doing something wrong. Seems better for animation for all the filters am I correct?

Thanks a lot btw guys! Its helping out A LOT!

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by mirkosp » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:20 pm

Well, as far as filters are concerned, a few of them were thougt out specifically with anime in mind, like for example awarpsharp, but a fair deal of them will work well on live action too... you'll just have to pay attention to the settings.
Generally speaking though, cpu=4 could be a bit too high of a setting even for anime, so it could be bad for live action. I'd set it to 0 and gradually increase it until you see artifacts going away (if there were any), while making sure that there isn't much blurring or detail loss involved. You'll probably end up using cpu=2 at most, although I don't know.
As for the aspect ratio issue, I think it's due to how you set your project in premiere.
I think you set your project to be a 720x480 widescreen NTSC, which would also explain why your sequence is 29.97. You have to manually specify the settings for the sequence so that they match the source.
By setting your sequence to 848x480 23.976 the black bars on the right and left side will be gone. Now, as for the upper and lower bars, those letterbox bars are already in the source I believe, since star wars is a 2.35:1 source, and in order to fit 2.35:1 into a DVD they have to letterbox it to 16:9 and encode anamorphic like that. You can either keep those borders and edit at 848x480, or crop them and edit at 848x352. If you want to crop them, then change your script to:

Code: Select all

mpeg2source("C:\Users\Edwin\Desktop\Ripped Files\A New Hope.d2v",cpu=0)
crop(0,64,-0,-64)
spline36resize(848,352)
I removed the converttoyv12 since DVDs are YV12 themselves, so it was just redundant. ConverttoRGB32() is probably what you are referring to, but I'd say that it is unnecessary.
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by Qyot27 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:08 pm

TeclmmlEd wrote:I get very confused when I get to Virtualdubmod. I have followed the AMVapp and zarxrax tutorial videos (http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/zarxfag/) and they both seem to be outdated in some form like with virtualdub being version 1.5 in the videos and the latest version is like 1.9. There is no more script editor like there was in 1.5 to be able to re-size the videos. I have seen the filters re-size option in version 1.9 but it doesn't do the same stuff as script editing. Am I missing something here?
Well, that's because VirtualDubMod is a fork of VirtualDub, and VDubMod hasn't been updated in two or three years (1.5.10.2 was from 2006, I think, and then 1.5.10.3 was released in late '07?). Regular VirtualDub, though, was being updated even while VDubMod didn't, and it's the original VDub that's at 1.9 now. And actually, depending on what you used VDubMod for, the original branch now supports many of the same features (I'm talking mostly of the input system - VDub itself now can support MPEG-2, WMV, FLV, and so on, because it's had a plugin system to handle it since one of the 1.8 updates). Regular VDub does not have a script editor, no.
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by TeclmmlEd » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:53 am

mirkosp wrote:Well, as far as filters are concerned, a few of them were thougt out specifically with anime in mind, like for example awarpsharp, but a fair deal of them will work well on live action too... you'll just have to pay attention to the settings.
Generally speaking though, cpu=4 could be a bit too high of a setting even for anime, so it could be bad for live action. I'd set it to 0 and gradually increase it until you see artifacts going away (if there were any), while making sure that there isn't much blurring or detail loss involved. You'll probably end up using cpu=2 at most, although I don't know.
As for the aspect ratio issue, I think it's due to how you set your project in premiere.
I think you set your project to be a 720x480 widescreen NTSC, which would also explain why your sequence is 29.97. You have to manually specify the settings for the sequence so that they match the source.
By setting your sequence to 848x480 23.976 the black bars on the right and left side will be gone. Now, as for the upper and lower bars, those letterbox bars are already in the source I believe, since star wars is a 2.35:1 source, and in order to fit 2.35:1 into a DVD they have to letterbox it to 16:9 and encode anamorphic like that. You can either keep those borders and edit at 848x480, or crop them and edit at 848x352. If you want to crop them, then change your script to:

Code: Select all

mpeg2source("C:\Users\Edwin\Desktop\Ripped Files\A New Hope.d2v",cpu=0)
crop(0,64,-0,-64)
spline36resize(848,352)
I removed the converttoyv12 since DVDs are YV12 themselves, so it was just redundant. ConverttoRGB32() is probably what you are referring to, but I'd say that it is unnecessary.
When I try to create a custom sequence withing Adobe Premiere CS4 it does not allow me -____-. The box with the height and width just stay Grey not allowing me to customize it.

- Tec

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by mirkosp » Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:03 am

Select "Desktop" instead of whatever preset is selected at the moment (probably "NTSC DV" or something along those lines).
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by TeclmmlEd » Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:21 pm

mirkosp wrote:Select "Desktop" instead of whatever preset is selected at the moment (probably "NTSC DV" or something along those lines).
Ok I had to go through one of the presets such as the one you just stated which is "DV - NTSC Widescreen 48khz" but than once I go to the general tab within this picture I can change the editing mode to desktop which aloud me to change all the settings to the correct ones which are...http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/6406 ... ttings.jpg

But even after this there are bigger black borders on the side of the video...does anything look wrong in those settings? ^^^

THANK YOU BTW YOU GUYS ARE HELPING OUT SO MUCH :)

- Tec

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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by Kariudo » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:11 pm

Try using a PAR of 1 instead of NTSC Widescreen
Also, you'll want to change field order to none (progressive) since your footage is progressive
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Re: Compression...Encoding...& Converting questions...

Post by mirkosp » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:23 pm

You'll also probably want to change the Audio Sample Rate to 44100 Hz, since that's how audio is stored on CDs. That is, unless your audio comes from a DVD, in which case 48000 Hz is appropriate.
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