Best Practices with preparing source

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Silvercoat
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Best Practices with preparing source

Post by Silvercoat » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:52 pm

Hello all! Going to take a shot here with this question. I poked around the FAQ section and check out PB's guides. I am still a bit a confused on what is the most efficient way of preparing sources.

I managed to make my first AMV recently (thank god). I worked with MKVs of source Blu-Rays, which at the suggestion of the AWA guide I ran through handbrake to a workable m4vs. I then ran these into Premier Pro (luckily I have creative cloud access) and worked from there. Audio was pulled from a CD I own.


My question is when preparing multiple sources, do you work from individual edited pieces/clips, or do you import everything (or a whole episode) and trim from there? ie:

Source files > process them all through Handbrake, AMVTools etc > import each and timeline edit > export/encode

or

Source files > process files (as above) > edit episode for clips you want > export > repeat for each episode > import clips into final project > export/encode

My apologies if I am asking to much (or should dig deeper into the FAQ's). Really wish I had the chance to meet up with some of the editors last AWA to chat but hopefully next year.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by Mol » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:46 am

It's kinda up to you. If you have the space to handle full episodes (few tb drive or something) you are fine or better this way.I find it more convievient to cut up scenes in premiere than virtualdub.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by l33tmeatwad » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:58 am

Depends on several factors. If you plan on using filters to clean up your source material it depends on if you plan to do that in pre-production or post. Filtering and creating clips you plan to use might save you time as filters slow down the conversion process, however you plan to do it in post converting the entire episode to lossless AVI is quicker and easier to get started. If you have a faster computer and it can scrub through and process h.264/MP4 files and you plan to filter in post (or not at all...which I would not recommend) then you could recontainer any MKV/M2TS files and use them directly in your editing software.

Side note, DO NOT USE HANDBRAKE AND DO NOT USE AMVTOOL TO RE-ENCODE MKV TO MP4 TO EDIT WITH! If you plan to use MP4s for editing, use the recontainering feature in AMVtool. If you have a 10-bit file and do not use Adobe CC, then convert to lossless AVI, it's quicker and better quality, but requires more space.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by Silvercoat » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:18 pm

Thank you both for the feedback. I love hearing from the masters themselves . When I made my AMV, I took mkv and converted the full episodes into an m4v format as per the AWA Handbrake instructions. I did not use any filters that I know of as it was simple subclip construction, and I exported it to one of the basic high quality preset in Premiere. I tested it with VLC/WMP/MPC on multiple computers and as far as I know there were no problems in viewing or sound (no subtitles etc.) Might I ask why using handbrake to re-encode to MP4 (or another format) would be a bad idea? I feel I might be missing something here, even after reading the PB AMV 101 guides to try and get on the same page.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by l33tmeatwad » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:16 am

A lot of people may not notice the quality loss, but there are many that will. Here is the journey a typical MKV took to get to you:

Studio Master -> Compressed for Blu-ray/DVD (Details lost) -> Compressed to Lossy h.264 format in MKV (Details lost)

From here if you recompress it again you lose more details and avoid more quality loss as we already know for digital distribution after your edit you will be compressing to a lossy format again, so it looks something like this (using youtube upload for example):

Studio Master -> Compressed for Blu-ray/DVD (Details lost) -> Compressed to Lossy h.264 format in MKV (Details lost) -> Compressed to lossy format for editing (Details lost) -> Output from editing software to lossy format (Details Lost) -> Uploaded to YouTube & compressed again (Details Lost)

The more lossy compression used, the more the flaws from previous compressions get worse. In addition to that, most of the previous encodes were done at the cost of time and processing power to preserve more details, but fast and dirty encodes with defaults in software like HandBreak will cause additional artifacts to pop up. It's ideal to not only break that chain of losing details, but using filters to "patch" them (as you can't regain lost detail) and stalling the artifacts from getting worst by future compression is much more ideal, this way the final project is not a hot mess of blocks, grain, and banding.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by Silvercoat » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:53 pm

For the moment I would like to keep it as simple as possible until my skills with the programs get better.

What I am understanding from this, is that the simplest way to start (assuming Premier cannot use the source file outright) is to re container the episode file MKV to Mp4 or AVI with AMVTool/AMVSynth.

From there using Premier, make the AMV from either multiple source episodes or clips pulled from sources.

I think what I am overthinking (and this comes from not having used AMVTool etc yet) is that I assume that most of your only re-encode/container parts (clips) of the source material? That way you only have a small clip file as a source to input as opposed to trimming down an entire episode? If that is the case then I think I have a slight better understanding on a more efficient way of making the AMVs.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by l33tmeatwad » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:47 am

I've done it both ways, I personally prefer full episodes as it makes it easier if I need to revisit the project later.
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by Silvercoat » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 pm

I suppose it gets much crazier as you go into further source materials (ie working beyond 1 episode). I also like the idea of having full episodes to work with but yeh space can be a concern. Its so much easier when you just watched something recently isnt it?
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Re: Best Practices with preparing source

Post by l33tmeatwad » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:37 am

Silvercoat wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 pm
Silvercoat wrote:I suppose it gets much crazier as you go into further source materials (ie working beyond 1 episode). I also like the idea of having full episodes to work with but yeh space can be a concern. Its so much easier when you just watched something recently isnt it?
Yes and no, sometimes you get set on using scenes you liked from watching it as opposed to looking for scenes that work better for the concept you are going for.
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