mpeg-4 question

the Black Monarch · Post by **the Black Monarch** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 3:58 pm

I've used two builds and both gave me the same shit.

Good luck distributing an 800 mb SVCD file on the internet, though.

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:44 pm

Onideus_Mad_Hatter wrote:
the Black Monarch wrote:
NicholasDWolfwood wrote:XviD works fine for everybody else but you.
Ah, I guess that's why there are so many threads created by people other than me who are having problems with XviD.
Um, I don't mean to interrupt you Lil Ones, but uh, what BUILD of XVid are you all refering too? Cause uh, there are quite a few of em. o_O

That's one of the reasons why I don't use MPEG-4 based codecs, there's just way too much confusion and bullshit. MPEG-4's only use is for people on slow connections who don't have much bandwidth to spare. I personally prefer stuff encoded in SVCD, mainly because it's so portable and the quality is superb. And if you're encoding in SVCD format, you can store 800mb per CD, since it doesn't need that extra 100mb for error correction that data CDs need.

SVCDs are data CDs.

More specifically I'm pretty sure you're using Mode 2 Form 2 (CD-ROM XA) though I could be wrong on this. In this case you get 2,324 bytes / sector as opposed to the normal 2,048 bytes / sector.

It's still more space but your statement isn't correct.

--

MPEG-4's only use is for people on slow connections who don't have much bandwidth to spare.

MPEG-4 video is designed for that. MPEG-4, while still constrained to primarily low-bandwidth domains, is designed to do a lot more than just transmit video. Check it out.

My two cents on the XviD issue:

XviD is in a developmental stage. It carries no guarantees of proper functionality at any time.

Many people don't seem to understand what this means.
This is what it means:

If you think something is broken, tell the developers about it. "Developers" can mean anybody from the people at xvid.org to whoever built your playback filter.

Sorry if this sounds really condescending, but I'm really tired of hearing people bitch about the same old stuff without ever DOING something about it. If XviD was a closed project, with little to no hope of outsiders getting involved in it, then maybe it'd be acceptable. But it's not. You can do something about it. Go do it.

Onideus_Mad_Hatter · Post by **Onideus_Mad_Hatter** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:06 pm

trythil wrote: SVCDs are data CDs.

Nope, two entirely seperate beasts. Now certainly you COULD burn an SVCD as a data CD, but uh, well that wouldn't be too smart.

More specifically I'm pretty sure you're using Mode 2 Form 2 (CD-ROM XA) though I could be wrong on this. In this case you get 2,324 bytes / sector as opposed to the normal 2,048 bytes / sector.

It's still more space but your statement isn't correct.

Nope, I mean I'm burning them as SVCDs, not data CDs.

My two cents on the XviD issue:

XviD is in a developmental stage. It carries no guarantees of proper functionality at any time.

Since it's open source you could say it's always gonna be in the developmental stage. : P

Onideus_Mad_Hatter · Post by **Onideus_Mad_Hatter** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:12 pm

the Black Monarch wrote:I've used two builds and both gave me the same shit.

Good luck distributing an 800 mb SVCD file on the internet, though.

Look at SD-6, they're encoding 800mb SVCD encodes of nearly every prime time show imaginable (been doing it too for several years now) and since they're encoding the HDTV wild feed off C-band satelite, the quality is just amazing. One ep per disk. Every show you can think of from Sliders, to Seaquest, to China Beach, to Buffy, to you name it.

...although granted their Usenet distribution has suddenly gone near tits up cause they where starting to overwhelm the entire grid in posts, error rates went skyrocketing and completion rates dropped severly, but bit torrents couldn't be better, I usually download around ~50 to ~100 kilobytes per second and share about that much in upload bandwidth in return.

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:34 pm

Onideus_Mad_Hatter wrote:
trythil wrote: SVCDs are data CDs.
Nope, two entirely seperate beasts. Now certainly you COULD burn an SVCD as a data CD, but uh, well that wouldn't be too smart.

Show me the spec sheet, because I certainly don't see the difference on it.

Onideus_Mad_Hatter wrote: My two cents on the XviD issue:

XviD is in a developmental stage. It carries no guarantees of proper functionality at any time.

Since it's open source you could say it's always gonna be in the developmental stage. : P[/quote]

Which applies for any software, proprietary, Free, or open-source.

But if you really want me to get pedantic with "developmental" I'll do that:

XviD isn't intended for public consumption. The documentation isn't all that good yet, it's a fast-moving project, and screwups will occur. If you encode with XviD then you should be prepared to test your encode in several different configurations to see if it'll actually work.

I do that, and I know others do as well. I also know some people don't do that and assume that it'll work just fine. That's where the problems start occurring.

NicholasDWolfwood · Post by **NicholasDWolfwood** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:34 pm

Onideus_Mad_Hatter wrote:
trythil wrote: SVCDs are data CDs.
Nope, two entirely seperate beasts. Now certainly you COULD burn an SVCD as a data CD, but uh, well that wouldn't be too smart.

More specifically I'm pretty sure you're using Mode 2 Form 2 (CD-ROM XA) though I could be wrong on this. In this case you get 2,324 bytes / sector as opposed to the normal 2,048 bytes / sector.

It's still more space but your statement isn't correct.
No, SVCDs ARE data CDs. The only thing that's not data is audio CDs, and then even they have data on them. SVCD is basically MPEG-2 video 480x480 (or 480x576 or something for PAL) burned as a data disk in a special way. Same with audio CDs, except they're audio data on a data disk.

Nope, I mean I'm burning them as SVCDs, not data CDs.

My two cents on the XviD issue:

XviD is in a developmental stage. It carries no guarantees of proper functionality at any time.
Since it's open source you could say it's always gonna be in the developmental stage. : P

Onideus_Mad_Hatter · Post by **Onideus_Mad_Hatter** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:13 pm

trythil wrote: Show me the spec sheet, because I certainly don't see the difference on it.

o_O

How 'bout you just download Nero and look at the options in the left hand corner of the wizard thing. Free cl00, don't pick the one that says Data CD, pick the one that says SVCD.

I'm not gonna go into this any further, if you don't know what it means to burn an SVCD, I don't think any explanation from me is gonna help. (another cl00, burning an SVCD is not the same as encoding a video file to meet SVCD specs).

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:24 pm

SVCDs are not like your regular CD-ROMs. You cannot just burn some MPEG-2 files on a blank CD-R and expect the end result to pass as an SVCD disc. The SVCD specification requires using a specific CD-XA sector format and a strictly defined directory hierachy, complete with MPEG tracks and some special control files.

It would be extremely difficult (if not outright impossible) to hand-craft a proper SVCD disc in a regular CD-ROM authoring application. If one failed to follow even a slighest detail in the specification, the disc would not play properly on a standard SVCD player, and could not be considered an SVCD disc at all. This is why SVCD discs are always created using specialized SVCD authoring software.

A proper SVCD authoring package contains all the necessary tools and editors for managing the video clips and defining multi-level menus, subtitles, still images, slide shows, playlists and other navigational elements needed for accessing all the content that has been prepared for the disc. In the end of the day, the authoring package is used to create the necessary binary image file which one can then burn on a blank CD-R disc.

Trythil is talking about the exact technical aspect of the SVCD standard (SVCD is a binary image file burnt to a CD using the specific CD-XA sector format). You are thinking of the common terms used by Nero that are there so that users don't get the different kinds of Data-CD formats mixed up.

Or at least, that's what I'm gathering from the situation.

NicholasDWolfwood · Post by **NicholasDWolfwood** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:40 pm

Ah, here's the secret of how Hatter got his stupidity. He followed Nero's wizard burning method. Free cl00, it's wrong.

Basically, an SVCD is this:

Video - MPEG-2 480x480 29.97fps/23.976fps (480x576 25fps for PAL)
Audio - 44kHz, MP2, I believe 284kbps

Burned onto a CD as Mode 2 Form 1 data, 2352 bytes per sector. Go look at the SVCD standard.

jonmartensen · Post by **jonmartensen** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 6:44 pm

That could have been said just as easilly without the Hatin'

Basically, an SVCD is this:

Video - MPEG-2 480x480 29.97fps/23.976fps (480x576 25fps for PAL)
Audio - 44kHz, MP2, I believe 284kbps

Burned onto a CD as Mode 2 Form 1 data, 2352 bytes per sector. Go look at the SVCD standard.