Integrating 2D and 3D

[trythil]

I'd just export at 24 FPS... I dunno what this 23.976 bullshit is about...

Most of us don't have the luxury to work from film, and that extra .024fps really does make a difference stretched out over 5000 frames.

AssumeFPS(24)

Unless you're trying to export an entire episode or something.

One condition -- I can't easily turn the DVDs into progressive footage pre-edit. (No AVISynth here.)

[the Black Monarch]

Damn, I forgot that part.

I still just don't see why you insist on exporting at 23.976 FPS instead of an even 24. It's not that hard. Premiere automatically duplicates frames when you put 23.9 FPS footage into a 24 FPS timeline.

[trythil]

Damn, I forgot that part.

I still just don't see why you insist on exporting at 23.976 FPS instead of an even 24. It's not that hard. Premiere automatically duplicates frames when you put 23.9 FPS footage into a 24 FPS timeline.

Who said I used Premiere?

[AbsoluteDestiny]

I think Linux is another concept that is beyond the comprehension of the black monarch.

[koronoru]

Premiere automatically duplicates frames when you put 23.9 FPS footage into a 24 FPS timeline.

Who said I used Premiere?

He does sort of have a point, though - do you really need to edit directly from the DVDs? Because if you're ripping to hard drive first, it should be possible to do the equivalent of AssumeFPS in your rip, without having to do the recompression that I think you're trying to avoid. I'm pretty sure transcode will let you pass through an MPEG stream and just change the frames-per-second code without changing anything else. Here's a thought:

* Rip to 29.970. Speed it up 0.1% to get 30.
* Make a sped-up copy of your soundtrack. You can do that by making the soundtrack as a raw PCM file and using sox to resample it from 44100 to 44144; then tell the editor that it's still 44100 audio.
* Animate at 30, using the sped-up soundtrack.
* Edit at 30 using the sped-up source material, the 30fps animation, and the sped-up soundtrack.
* Slow it down to 29.970 and do your final encode using the original really 44100 soundtrack.
* If you want a 23.976 version, apply whatever inverse telecining. This will suck for the animation that was done at 30, but you said you couldn't do the IVTC first (which is what I'd prefer).

Basically the same thing the Premiere users do, because it too can't handle fractional framerates.

[trythil]

Premiere automatically duplicates frames when you put 23.9 FPS footage into a 24 FPS timeline.

Who said I used Premiere?

He does sort of have a point, though - do you really need to edit directly from the DVDs? Because if you're ripping to hard drive first, it should be possible to do the equivalent of AssumeFPS in your rip, without having to do the recompression that I think you're trying to avoid. I'm pretty sure transcode will let you pass through an MPEG stream and just change the frames-per-second code without changing anything else. Here's a thought:

* Rip to 29.970. Speed it up 0.1% to get 30.
* Make a sped-up copy of your soundtrack. You can do that by making the soundtrack as a raw PCM file and using sox to resample it from 44100 to 44144; then tell the editor that it's still 44100 audio.
* Animate at 30, using the sped-up soundtrack.
* Edit at 30 using the sped-up source material, the 30fps animation, and the sped-up soundtrack.
* Slow it down to 29.970 and do your final encode using the original really 44100 soundtrack.
* If you want a 23.976 version, apply whatever inverse telecining. This will suck for the animation that was done at 30, but you said you couldn't do the IVTC first (which is what I'd prefer).

Basically the same thing the Premiere users do, because it too can't handle fractional framerates.

Well, I don't have to edit from the exact DVD data. It is possible to inverse telecine before I do anything; I'll end up with a very nice 23.976fps stream to work from, and Cinelerra will handle that just fine at that framerate.

Here's the reason why I haven't been doing that, though: The problem is that I'm a stickler for quality, and it's very difficult to retain the original DVD quality with the same size. Any conversion that I do inevitably leads me to re-compress the video data into a very lossless, but VERY big, file.

However, until now, I didn't know that transcode would let me pass through an MPEG stream and just change the fps...I always thought that it did some sort of recompression no matter what you did. I'll have to give that a try...

For now, though, I've just been generating the 3D scenes at 30fps, and then slowing them 0.1% to 29.97fps, which I think is a variant of the things that people have been telling me to do in the first place I get 29.97fps progressive this way (which is weird, I know), but it's easy to re-interlace, so I think I'll be OK. The MPEG-2 copy output to TV will reveal the correctness (or, much more likely, horrible incorrectness) of what I'm doing...

[trythil]

Something else (gah, double posts):

Blender's "Fields" option /seems/ to do what I want it to do (i.e. generate interlaced footage at whatever fps you give it), so I'll go ahead and give that a try too. If that's the case, then this might be easier than I thought. Or maybe I've been making this harder than it has to be through my horrible misunderstandings of frame rates

[koronoru]

In a perfect world, you'd be able to tell Cinelerra to speed the 29.970 rip up to 30 without duplicating frames. Actually, I think that might already be possible if you right-click on the file in the "resources" window after loading it.

[trythil]

In a perfect world, you'd be able to tell Cinelerra to speed the 29.970 rip up to 30 without duplicating frames. Actually, I think that might already be possible if you right-click on the file in the "resources" window after loading it.

Yeah, you can change the frame rate at which a resource plays back.

[trythil]

Looks like my problem's gone. After enabling field rendering and tweaking a couple of other things, Blender generated 340 frames of beautiful NTSC interlaced footage (bet that you'll never hear "beautiful" and "interlaced" in the same context ever again ) Thanks for all your help, everyone