God

This forum is for members to discuss topics that do not relate to anime music videos.

Postby godix » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:18 pm

Krisqo wrote:True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

Actually, if you believe the bible, god wanted puppets. In order for free will to mean anything you need enough knowledge to use the free will and God didn't want us to have that knowledge. We had to take it ourself, with a little help from a snake. At which point we were punished for all eternity (or until the final judgement, whichever comes first). So while God gave us free will he must have done is as a rather sadistic joke because the first time man used his free will, and used it without the ability to even know they were making a bad choice, they not only got their ass whipped for it but their children and grandchildren and so on got an ass kicking as well. Kinda like if a two month old did something wrong so you toss it in jail for the rest of it's life and toss and offspring it has in jail until the entire line dies out. So yeah, god does want us to be puppets controlled by an omnipotent being and he got rather pissy when things didn't quite work out that way.
Image
User avatar
godix
a disturbed member
 
Joined: 03 Aug 2002

Postby Orwell » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:20 pm

Obligatory Doobl! reference. Yes, the beginning sucks, read the till the end, it's not all that long.
Latest
[Kristyrat]: Vote for Orwell
[Kristyrat]: because train conducters are dicks.
Otohiko: whereas Germans are like "god we are all so horrible, we're going to die a pointless death now."
User avatar
Orwell
godx, Son of godix
 
Joined: 06 Jan 2004
Location: Frying Pan. Destination: Fire.

Postby Krisqo » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:26 pm

godix wrote:
Krisqo wrote:True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

Actually, if you believe the bible, god wanted puppets. In order for free will to mean anything you need enough knowledge to use the free will and God didn't want us to have that knowledge. We had to take it ourself, with a little help from a snake. At which point we were punished for all eternity (or until the final judgement, whichever comes first). So while God gave us free will he must have done is as a rather sadistic joke because the first time man used his free will, and used it without the ability to even know they were making a bad choice, they not only got their ass whipped for it but their children and grandchildren and so on got an ass kicking as well. Kinda like if a two month old did something wrong so you toss it in jail for the rest of it's life and toss and offspring it has in jail until the entire line dies out. So yeah, god does want us to be puppets controlled by an omnipotent being and he got rather pissy when things didn't quite work out that way.


As usual I disagree with you Godix.

God put the tree of Knowledge there and forbade Adam and Eve from eating the fruit as a test to see if they would be loyal to what he says. Sure that is in a way being a puppet master, but if he REALLY wanted to control them, he would have made SURE they would never eat the fruit, even with Satan egging them on.

And it was the ONLY RULE. They could do whatever else they wanted but they broke ONE SIMPLE RULE. That would piss ANYONE off to that point. It wasn't a HARD request and I believe they got their just punishment.

Also, keep in mind that Genesis is just a story created during the Babylonian captivity to keep the followers of God in line even during the hardships. There never was a garden of eden or even Noah's Ark. In fact, I think Noah's Ark was written as a way to cancel out the negatives in the Creation Story. Albeit he killed thousands of people in the process so I don't think it holds much credibility, but just a personal opinion.
Image
User avatar
Krisqo
Cooking Oil
 
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Moderating the Adobe Forums
Status: W.O.A (Waiting on Aion)

Postby wurpess » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:28 pm

Krisqo wrote:True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

But I would not say that Christianity is shoving shit down people's throats. Hell... how often do you hear ANYTHING about Benedict XVI? He's done NOTHING since he was 'elected' Pope. In fact, don't expect him to do anything because he is a transitional Pope while they find a more suitable pontificate to replace him when he dies in a few years.

Ah, but how do you know you have free will? This all could be God's plan from the start. lol. That's just something I always like to think about. Do we actually have free will, or is it like playing the Sims? They might take their own retarded route to get there, but all of their actions have already been set out by some being they can't see. lol. Who knows.

Christianity itself, no, but some Christians, yes. Crusades. The "conversion" of the native Americans. Jehovah's Witnesses. Just various people you meet everyday that will try to convert you convinced that's the only way you will be "saved." I know every religion has that to the extent. Look at the Middle East. But in the US, its Christianity that seems to be the worst about that. I have nothing against Christianity and Christians. I'm technically Roman Catholic. I just hate all these born-again Christians trying like hell to convert everyone, even if they already have a religion or don't want one. Or even worse. Trying to convert someone from another sect of Christianity to theirs convinced that theirs is the only right one. But really its all the same but with slight variations and emphasis on different aspects. So really, its just a matter of picking which one works for you and rolling with it. There's no reason that a Methodist should be telling and Episcopalian they're going to Hell because they're not Methodist. Its all Christianity in the end. You're still following the same ideal. Just going about it in a different manner. Its just one of my peeves. lol. And Pope Benedict did away with Limbo.

godix wrote:Actually, if you believe the bible, god wanted puppets. In order for free will to mean anything you need enough knowledge to use the free will and God didn't want us to have that knowledge. We had to take it ourself, with a little help from a snake. At which point we were punished for all eternity (or until the final judgement, whichever comes first). So while God gave us free will he must have done is as a rather sadistic joke because the first time man used his free will, and used it without the ability to even know they were making a bad choice, they not only got their ass whipped for it but their children and grandchildren and so on got an ass kicking as well. Kinda like if a two month old did something wrong so you toss it in jail for the rest of it's life and toss and offspring it has in jail until the entire line dies out. So yeah, god does want us to be puppets controlled by an omnipotent being and he got rather pissy when things didn't quite work out that way.

Yeah, the voices gave me an "alternate" version of creation and Adam and Eve and stuff, and they said that from the beginning, God and Lucifer were basically quarrelling over how the human race would be. And at that point, God was for puppets and Lucifer was for free will. And when the puppet thing came about, Lucifer felt sorry for us and finally convinced Eve to eat the apple. Needless to say, God was pissed. Took it out on us. And has been using that as an excuse to take his anger out on us ever since. That and punishing anyone who takes any advice whatsoever from Lucifer, since he's still pissed at him. But yeah, that's the voices. And I try not to listen to them. Because they're weird. :D
ImageImage
User avatar
wurpess
rabid fangirl
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: The happy place in my head
Status: BLAAAARGH!!!!! -_-

Postby SilversLightning » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:33 pm

I was gonna say a lot of those things but I decided against it :roll: mostly what godix said though. We are puppets sometimes and free will is mostly an illusion. That's God's sadistic sense of humor I spoke of earlier. But other times when he's not in a weird mood we go about some sort of business.

But then again if you believe what the bible tells you if you do something wrong he would love you (as much) I thought love was unconditional? Not necessarily. It's only unconditional if you do what He wants. And thus we are puppets.
User avatar
SilversLightning
Resident Yaoi Fangirl
 
Joined: 17 Oct 2005
Location: in an alternate universe
Status: Going crazy

Postby Krisqo » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:35 pm

wurpess wrote:
Krisqo wrote:True. But that's why God gave us free will. Otherwise we would be puppets controlled by some omnipotent being.

But I would not say that Christianity is shoving shit down people's throats. Hell... how often do you hear ANYTHING about Benedict XVI? He's done NOTHING since he was 'elected' Pope. In fact, don't expect him to do anything because he is a transitional Pope while they find a more suitable pontificate to replace him when he dies in a few years.

Ah, but how do you know you have free will? This all could be God's plan from the start. lol. That's just something I always like to think about. Do we actually have free will, or is it like playing the Sims? They might take their own retarded route to get there, but all of their actions have already been set out by some being they can't see. lol. Who knows.

Christianity itself, no, but some Christians, yes. Crusades. The "conversion" of the native Americans. Jehovah's Witnesses. Just various people you meet everyday that will try to convert you convinced that's the only way you will be "saved." I know every religion has that to the extent. Look at the Middle East. But in the US, its Christianity that seems to be the worst about that. I have nothing against Christianity and Christians. I'm technically Roman Catholic. I just hate all these born-again Christians trying like hell to convert everyone, even if they already have a religion or don't want one. Or even worse. Trying to convert someone from another sect of Christianity to theirs convinced that theirs is the only right one. But really its all the same but with slight variations and emphasis on different aspects. So really, its just a matter of picking which one works for you and rolling with it. There's no reason that a Methodist should be telling and Episcopalian they're going to Hell because they're not Methodist. Its all Christianity in the end. You're still following the same ideal. Just going about it in a different manner. Its just one of my peeves. lol. And Pope Benedict did away with Limbo.


Surprisingly, I only meet a small people like that around my area. And most of the Jehovah's Witnesses just stand around 69th Street Terminal holding their little newsletters. But I guess it might be different in some other parts of the country.

And he did away with Limbo? How the hell did I sleep through that?

Btw... for those wondering, I am a Roman Catholic under the Society of Pope Pius X.
Image
User avatar
Krisqo
Cooking Oil
 
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Moderating the Adobe Forums
Status: W.O.A (Waiting on Aion)

Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:38 pm

its the MATRIX WE ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX!!!
User avatar
JaddziaDax
Crazy Cat Lady!
 
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: somewhere i think O.o
Status: I has a TRU Arceus

Postby Krisqo » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:41 pm

DivineQueenYeiweh wrote:I was gonna say a lot of those things but I decided against it :roll: mostly what godix said though. We are puppets sometimes and free will is mostly an illusion. That's God's sadistic sense of humor I spoke of earlier. But other times when he's not in a weird mood we go about some sort of business.

But then again if you believe what the bible tells you if you do something wrong he would love you (as much) I thought love was unconditional? Not necessarily. It's only unconditional if you do what He wants. And thus we are puppets.


Sorry for double post.

But God's love IS unconditional. He showed that through Jesus Christ. But are we really in the right about this. Keep this in mind. The holy Trinity is something that we, as humans, can never understand. How can one being be three? Does not add up. What is happening here is that through the years of falsities thrown at our faces, we begin to believe things that are totally contradictory. That is how fucked up Christianity has gotten over the centuries.

If you think about it, didn't Jesus say that we would know neither the time or the place where the second coming is going to occure? If you take that literally, as long as someone believes that the world is going to end today, it will NEVER happen.

When looking at things like this, I begin to wonder if there really IS a God or are we just making this shit up...
Image
User avatar
Krisqo
Cooking Oil
 
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Moderating the Adobe Forums
Status: W.O.A (Waiting on Aion)

Postby guy07 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:49 pm

JaddziaDax wrote:its the MATRIX WE ARE ALL IN THE MATRIX!!!

It's true :x
User avatar
guy07
 
Joined: 08 Sep 2003
Location: T.O.
Status: Back in beard.

Postby godix » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:58 pm

Krisqo wrote:God put the tree of Knowledge there and forbade Adam and Eve from eating the fruit as a test to see if they would be loyal to what he says. Sure that is in a way being a puppet master, but if he REALLY wanted to control them, he would have made SURE they would never eat the fruit, even with Satan egging them on.


However he did not give humanity the one thing needed to pass the test. For loyalty to work you have to know loyalty is a good thing and know enough to realize who to be loyal to. If you think about it, Adam and Eve were loyal. Although it was to the instructions of the serpent. But hey, they didn't actually know the serpent was evil and god was good. To them all the had was one guy saying do it, another guy saying don't, and absolutely no way to determine which one they should be loyal too. Imagine if I tell you to pick A or B and if you make the wrong choice I will torture you for the rest of your short miserable life. Then I will torture your children for their short miserable life. If you make the right choice then everything is cool. What is A and B and which is the good choice? Sorry, you don't need to know that and in fact the only way to actually find out is to randomly pick one and just hope you get it right.

Also, keep in mind that Genesis is just a story created during the Babylonian captivity to keep the followers of God in line even during the hardships. There never was a garden of eden or even Noah's Ark. In fact, I think Noah's Ark was written as a way to cancel out the negatives in the Creation Story. Albeit he killed thousands of people in the process so I don't think it holds much credibility, but just a personal opinion.

The bible is the true word of God except, of course, for all the times it isn't? What a weird belief system you must have.
Image
User avatar
godix
a disturbed member
 
Joined: 03 Aug 2002

Postby wurpess » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:01 pm

Krisqo wrote:Surprisingly, I only meet a small people like that around my area. And most of the Jehovah's Witnesses just stand around 69th Street Terminal holding their little newsletters. But I guess it might be different in some other parts of the country.

And he did away with Limbo? How the hell did I sleep through that?

Btw... for those wondering, I am a Roman Catholic under the Society of Pope Pius X.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070420/ts_nm/pope_limbo_dc *^_^*

But yeah, I've lived East Coast, West Coast, Mid-West, been in the military, watched the news and TV, and I've seen a lot of it. And it just annoys me. Which is probably why I've fallen away from organized religion. (That and the nice traditional Roman Catholic church I belonged to going all weird and touchy feely hippie on me after the older pastor who was the embodiment of everything I thought the religion should be left to make way for some other younger priest whose preachings and general personality ran along the lines of the religious peeves that I have.) I mean, if everyone is saying that the other is going to hell because they don't share their beliefs, then is everyone going to hell?
ImageImage
User avatar
wurpess
rabid fangirl
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: The happy place in my head
Status: BLAAAARGH!!!!! -_-

Postby Krisqo » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:05 pm

godix wrote:
Krisqo wrote:Also, keep in mind that Genesis is just a story created during the Babylonian captivity to keep the followers of God in line even during the hardships. There never was a garden of eden or even Noah's Ark. In fact, I think Noah's Ark was written as a way to cancel out the negatives in the Creation Story. Albeit he killed thousands of people in the process so I don't think it holds much credibility, but just a personal opinion.

The bible is the true word of God except, of course, for all the times it isn't? What a weird belief system you must have.


Think about it? Did we really start off like that? I'm a Christian but that does not mean I don't believe in evolution. And what about the other people? If everyone is descended from Adam and Eve, when Cain was exiled, where did the people he met up with come from? That's the problem with the bible, much of it does not make sense.
Image
User avatar
Krisqo
Cooking Oil
 
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Moderating the Adobe Forums
Status: W.O.A (Waiting on Aion)

Postby godix » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:09 pm

Krisqo wrote:Think about it? Did we really start off like that? I'm a Christian but that does not mean I don't believe in evolution. And what about the other people? If everyone is descended from Adam and Eve, when Cain was exiled, where did the people he met up with come from? That's the problem with the bible, much of it does not make sense.

And yet you still believe in it. Astounding.
Image
User avatar
godix
a disturbed member
 
Joined: 03 Aug 2002

Postby wurpess » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:10 pm

Krisqo wrote:
godix wrote:
Krisqo wrote:Also, keep in mind that Genesis is just a story created during the Babylonian captivity to keep the followers of God in line even during the hardships. There never was a garden of eden or even Noah's Ark. In fact, I think Noah's Ark was written as a way to cancel out the negatives in the Creation Story. Albeit he killed thousands of people in the process so I don't think it holds much credibility, but just a personal opinion.

The bible is the true word of God except, of course, for all the times it isn't? What a weird belief system you must have.


Think about it? Did we really start off like that? I'm a Christian but that does not mean I don't believe in evolution. And what about the other people? If everyone is descended from Adam and Eve, when Cain was exiled, where did the people he met up with come from? That's the problem with the bible, much of it does not make sense.

Yeah, that was part of the version the voices told me. Their version supported evolution, mythical creatures, polytheism, where the other people came from. Yeah. They can be entertaining and thought provoking. *^_^*
ImageImage
User avatar
wurpess
rabid fangirl
 
Joined: 28 Mar 2005
Location: The happy place in my head
Status: BLAAAARGH!!!!! -_-

Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Apr 26, 2007 3:10 pm

Krisqo wrote:I'm a Christian but that does not mean I don't believe in evolution.


from what i can tell those are very few and far between....

the local walmart carries a christian section in the DVD area, it has such titles as "Animals that defy Evoloution" and how many times have i heard on the news about parents getting mad that evolution is being taught in the schools... that "all theories should be included, including creation-ism" or that there should be "huge warnings at the beginning of science books that say "this is only a theory" " O.o
User avatar
JaddziaDax
Crazy Cat Lady!
 
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: somewhere i think O.o
Status: I has a TRU Arceus

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests