I just want a simple, cheap encoder for the PC. . .

elvirasweeney · Post by **elvirasweeney** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:00 pm

I'm still kind of a newbie, but I've been making fan videos on my Mac, with reasonably good results, using Final Cut Pro, Quicktime Pro, Compressor, and sometimes MPEG Streamclip. The thing I like most about these apps is that they allow you to change frame size (though Streamclip has limitations here), crop black letterbox borders, deinterlace, downsize with good quality, and even edit brightness, contrast, etc.

Anyway, I'm having a hard time finding suitably cheap, simple, uncomplicated compression apps on the PC side. I want to use them on my own PC, but also I want to be able to tell newbie first-time fan vidders about some easy, cheap programs they can try. The more sophisticated compression techniques (which I'm still learning, and after all, I'm mostly a Mac vidder) will be something they'll learn as they progress.

I tried River Past's Video Cleaner and I like it well enough, but it doesn't deinterlace and it doesn't resize down well. I've tried SUPER, but again, no custom frame sizes, and the audio "drifts" (just a tiny bit) for me. There are a few other apps which are free or almost free, and sometimes they work okay, but there's always a problem. Some of the apps are too futzy or the interface is not simple enough for a newbie.

I have to think that there's something better out there that I'm missing. Please help! And again, what I'm looking for is free or cheap (under $30), custom frame sizes, good downscaling, deinterlace, decent choice of codecs, trimming letterbox (if possible). Where do I find such an app?

Thank you so much in advance.

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:13 pm

... have you read the guides, specifically <a href="/guides/avtech">the A/V guide</a>? The methods it illustrates make extensive use of VirtualDubMod, an excellent free encoder that most people around here seem to use.

Kariudo · Post by **Kariudo** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:20 pm

IIRC, VirtualDub(/mod) is only for Windows
Avidemux is supposed to be comparable to Vdub but it can be used cross-platfrom

yes I know that the tilte says for PC...and that Mac is not a PC

elvirasweeney · Post by **elvirasweeney** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:35 pm

Thanks for the link to Avidemux, Kariudo! I downloaded it but for some reason it's not happy with my Mac . . . Hmmm ... Will try later; it looks promising!

Scintilla wrote:... have you read the guides, specifically <a href="/guides/avtech">the A/V guide</a>? The methods it illustrates make extensive use of VirtualDubMod, an excellent free encoder that most people around here seem to use.

Scintilla, yes, I have read the A/V Guide—it isn't translating over well for the Mac for me. Or maybe I'm just not dedicated enough!

I'm pretty happy with my current system of exporting uncompressed QT file out of Final Cut Pro, and then converting it (using H.264) with either FCP's Compressor app, Quicktime Pro, or Streamclip. I can also export to DivX with QT Pro. Of course I'm sure the quality could be even better, but it's at a decent level for now.

The issue isn't really the Mac question, but a "newbie friendly" PC question. I have been trying to encourage other newbie PC vidders to do something better than your standard export-out-of-Windows-Movie-Maker using some dreadful WMV export. I fear that VirtualDub is not quite newbie-friendly enough for some of them. So I'm trying to find something else that's at least a step up from what they're currently using. (Later on they can tackle VirtualDub Mod.) I have done some experiments with exporting (for instance) a DV AVI file from Windows Movie Maker, and have gotten decent results using MPEG Streamclip on the PC. But I find myself porting the WMM AVI file over to my Mac to get an serious work done, because my PC apps just aren't cutting it.

If Quicktime Pro worked as well on the PC as it does on the Mac, I'd recommend that in a heartbeat. But the Windows version of QT Pro is a mere shadow of what the Mac version is. (Why that is, I cannot say. Perhaps I'm not configuring it right.) The Windows version won't open all the file types that the Mac can—it won't export to DivX, etc. etc.

To put this another way, I'm looking for a "dumbed down" not-as-good-as-VirtualDub but okay-to-get-started app for Windows-based vidding newbies. So far, only MPEG Streamclip comes close to providing all that I'm looking for. River Past's video cleaner is pretty decent, but with some deficiencies. SUPER has problems with not enough customizable frame sizes (as well as a few other things). And so forth and so on.

Thanks so much for your input. I know that there's a lot I need to learn!

Kariudo · Post by **Kariudo** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:47 pm

did you get the mac OSX version from this site?

also, virtualdub(/Mod) should be fairly easy for noobs to pick up (I think)
how to use vdub
how to encode using xvid and vdubmod
you also might find the virtualdubmod site to be helpful
http://virtualdubmod.sourceforge.net/

elvirasweeney · Post by **elvirasweeney** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:12 pm

Kariudo wrote:did you get the mac OSX version from this site?

Yes, that's the place! I don't know what the problem is—it just won't open.

also, virtualdub(/Mod) should be fairly easy for noobs to pick up (I think)
how to use vdub

That's a l-o-o-o-o-ng page for a newbie who barely knows what "codec" means!

It's a great guide, no mistake, but I fear that some people need to take baby steps. A few boxes to tick, and few numbers to fill in, press "GO" and they're done. That's what I'm hoping to find. (Kind of like QT Pro.)

Is there anything like that, or am I just kidding myself? (And thanks again for the links—will pass them along.)

Melanchthon · Post by **Melanchthon** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:37 pm

elvirasweeney wrote:That's a l-o-o-o-o-ng page for a newbie who barely knows what "codec" means! It's a great guide, no mistake, but I fear that some people need to take baby steps. A few boxes to tick, and few numbers to fill in, press "GO" and they're done. That's what I'm hoping to find. (Kind of like QT Pro.)

Hmm, reading through that page, it does go into a lot of detail fairly quickly, and not all of it is essential (Job Control is useful, but not really required at first). Unfortunately, VDM/AviSynth is the most technical part of the process, and the closest you're going to get to ticking and filling in boxes is when you'repicking a codec and filename for the output.

That guide is being updated, but I don't know how much the VirtualDubMod pages are going to change.

Scintilla · Post by **Scintilla** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:14 am

elvirasweeney wrote:The issue isn't really the Mac question, but a "newbie friendly" PC question. I have been trying to encourage other newbie PC vidders to do something better than your standard export-out-of-Windows-Movie-Maker using some dreadful WMV export. I fear that VirtualDub is not quite newbie-friendly enough for some of them. So I'm trying to find something else that's at least a step up from what they're currently using. (Later on they can tackle VirtualDub Mod.) I have done some experiments with exporting (for instance) a DV AVI file from Windows Movie Maker, and have gotten decent results using MPEG Streamclip on the PC. But I find myself porting the WMM AVI file over to my Mac to get an serious work done, because my PC apps just aren't cutting it.

If Quicktime Pro worked as well on the PC as it does on the Mac, I'd recommend that in a heartbeat. But the Windows version of QT Pro is a mere shadow of what the Mac version is. (Why that is, I cannot say. Perhaps I'm not configuring it right.) The Windows version won't open all the file types that the Mac can—it won't export to DivX, etc. etc.

To put this another way, I'm looking for a "dumbed down" not-as-good-as-VirtualDub but okay-to-get-started app for Windows-based vidding newbies. So far, only MPEG Streamclip comes close to providing all that I'm looking for. River Past's video cleaner is pretty decent, but with some deficiencies. SUPER has problems with not enough customizable frame sizes (as well as a few other things). And so forth and so on.

I haven't actually USED it in a while, but in that case, you might want to look into http://www.eo-video.com

I remember it being fairly straightforward and, perhaps more importantly, able to handle almost any kind of input video (seemingly).

trythil · Post by **trythil** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:41 am

elvirasweeney wrote:Thanks for the link to Avidemux, Kariudo! I downloaded it but for some reason it's not happy with my Mac . . . Hmmm ... Will try later; it looks promising! :D

avidemux isn't necessarily more "user-friendly" than VirtualDub(Mod) is. In some ways it's less friendly -- lots more widgets on the front screen may make it more overwhelming.

I'll let you decide that for yourself, though.

As for possibilities for why the OS X build of avidemux isn't working: avidemux is a GTK+ app that was compiled using a version of GTK+ using X11. As such, an X Window System server is necessary; if you don't have one, avidemux will not function.

X servers are available on the OS X Tiger CD, somewhere on Apple's website, and in Fink.

Gepetto · Post by **Gepetto** » Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:10 am

Nandub is a modification of VirtualDb with less resources and a simpler interface. I used to encode with it because it had some kind of "auto-XviD" button (I don't remember what it was called but it was right there on the File menu). It's been a while and probably a few versions since I used it, but it was literally as easy as open, press button, save. When I decided to actually learn something about encoding, I jumped to VirtualDubMod and I was already used to the way it looked, so yay.