I Just Don't Get It

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I Just Don't Get It

Postby HeavyMetal » Sat Oct 07, 2006 9:50 pm

A conversation with a friend has promoted me to find the answer to this question.

What is the draw of non-metal music?

I've only known a few songs that were not metal that seemed great to me. Some orchestrated, a little John Lennon, and some others.

Metal just offers such a range of songs from anger, sorrow, love, etc. Plus the show is always as brilliant as the sound.

I thought I would see if anyone could explain this to me. While this question applies to most any music the case example of my friend is that of a country fan.

I just don't get it. There are plenty of heartbreaking metal songs and moments if you go for that. Then there are the other aspects. I find it funny when the 'exciting' part of the show is when the country singers spins around the guitar to tap on the back of it.

I'm from the world where the exciting part of the show is full of fire, blood, explosions, larger than life props, fireworks, light shows, and insanely complex solos.

So what is the draw of other music?

(I know somebody may take this as some sort of insult rather than question so in such a case I say chill.)
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Postby Jebadia » Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:02 pm

I don't think anyone would find this question insulting....just might find it a stupid one. Just like any other topic on why a person would desire one thing over another, it's all a matter of opinion, or taste..or both. I like some metal, but I'm no fan, nor do I find myself leaning all or most on one domain of music. You need to keep in mind that while metal may cover so many ranges...it's still metal, it's still very distinctly metal, and not everyone is into metal. There is other music that covers just as many ranges, metal isn't the only one out there. I'm gonna take a stretch with a non-musical example and use anime as an example since this is an AMV forum. Anime covers a broad range of genres and ideas...but it's till anime, still distinctly anime, and we all damn well know not everyone likes anime.

The same reason people like black and white films over color, or silent films over non-silent films, digital painting over traditional painting, all vice versa. Not everything appeals to everyone else, and it should be easy to understand by thinking of some other kind of music you don't like that a lot of other people do like. Take Techno, Jazz, Rap, or Polka for instance, if you're not a fan of any or one of those, just take that dislike, and apply it to metal, and there you go. One sound over another. One will like it, another won't, and nothing you can do will change their minds nor will they change yours unless you are really willing to put your foot in and take a dip.

Also keep in mind it's not always the 'show' that draws the people in. I couldn't really care if one of my favorite bands is having a live performance on my front porch, I probably wouldn't watch it (okay I might, it is on my porch afterall). I don't need the spectacle, just the music. If I want a spectacle, I'll edit one myself, that's why I took up amv's.
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Postby Scintilla » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:30 am

Sometimes you just want some music that fills up the background nicely while your mind is on something else. See also: Onegai Twins soundtrack.

Also, I've been accumulating a lot of club and other electronic dance music in the past few years because it's often happy and bouncy.

And I should mention that I speak as one who doesn't go to live shows.
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Postby Kalium » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:32 am

Go listen to some Joni Mitchell, and then come back. Some things are ruined by heavy instrumentals.
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Re: I Just Don't Get It

Postby downwithpants » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:43 am

metal covers all the things that make other styles of music enjoyable - emotion, energy/release, skilled composition and performance, etc.

some of the differences between styles of music are function, associated ideologies, and timbre characteristics such as instrumentation and vocalization.

you gave an example of function for metal:
HeavyMetal wrote:I'm from the world where the exciting part of the show is full of fire, blood, explosions, larger than life props, fireworks, light shows...

and timbre characteristic
HeavyMetal wrote:and insanely complex solos.


well other styles of music emphasize different functions of music, such as relaxation, dealing with emotions, dance, and socialization...

and appeal through other timber characteristics - rap through, for example, rhythm and lyrical stress, classical through, for example, form and key progression.
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Postby megaman917 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 1:57 am

Like Jebadia said, it's a matter of taste and opinion. I've often wondered what the draw to metal was, but I stopped caring (about what the draw was), because it wasn't important to me. I just keep in mind why I love hip-hop & R&B (and some rock/metal), and leave it at that.
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Postby blaku92 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:12 am

I have several different tastes in music, but I strongly believe Metal is one of the few surviving styles that is created because of an artist's passion for it. Metal bands, at least the good ones that don't sell out, always become better with time because they have a real love for what they do. That's my reason for enjoying metal -- when you hear it, you just know the band means it. I'm not saying all other music sucks -- cuz that's not true at all. It's nice to listen to something relaxing or silly every once in a while. I suppose people who don't particularly care for metal are that way because it doesn't fit their personality. It irritates me when people don't give it a chance though. I've had several friends that never listened to Metal before, and when I introduced a few songs to them, they became addicted. I don't ever judge people because of their musical tastes, but many do. I say just give different types of music a chance, but it's alright to have a personal favorite. There is good music out there that's not metal.
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Postby HeavyMetal » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:24 pm

Jebadia A stupid question huh? (I think I got a Jackass from the start.)

You missed the point by over focusing on my examples. The point was I’ve never seen anything cover the range that metal covers. (I've listened to a ton of other music. Metal people are rare in my town.)

Opinion and taste are not without a basis of 'Why'.

I speak of elements that a person desires in music that draws them to that music.

I like Metal. Why:

Passionate Lyrics
Powerful Bass
Wild Antics
Wide Range of Songs
Wide Range of Fans
Enormous Shows
Legendary Characters
Interesting People
Inventive Styles
Adrenalin Pounding Music

This is what I look for in music for the most part. I do listen to Weird Al, since Metal’s one real limitation is that it does not do funny. (Okay maybe System of the Down does)

Here is a non-musical example:
If you like or dislike Tomatoes you must have a reason. It could be flavor, acidity, color, texture, or some combination of those elements or more. The stupid person is the one that does not understand the Why of what they themselves desire. Know thy Self some may say.


I see your point Scintilla. I suppose some could not listen to metal and do other things at the same time. Though could be like adjusting to a hot tub’s temperature.

Sorry found Joni Mitchell monotonous.

Sorry downwithpants missed my point. I can find different functions of timbre and anything in metal to include relaxation, dealing with emotions, socialization. And metal draws a lot from Classical see Iron Maiden on that one. (Talented violinist were similarly persecuted as devil worshipers too.)


The question is really what would lead one person to chose one form of music over another?

I am somewhat blinded by my own choice, but I see that a breakdown of the elements that construct that music are the source of my desire.

So it must be with other music. I just can't think of enough elements in other music that would lead it to be a desired choice.

Perhaps I am wrong and most people are not self-aware enough to make the choice, but only listen to that to which they were exposed.

I guess it could be some choice and some life experience. Though I certainly was not around metal, but came across it by accident. (I guess its more of sociological question than I realized.)
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Postby blaku92 » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:36 pm

HeavyMetal wrote:Metal’s one real limitation is that it does not do funny. (Okay maybe System of the Down does)


Hmmm this isn't true. Metal doesn't limit anything. Check out my latest amv:

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... p?v=130004
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Postby CerebralAssamite » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:40 pm

What I am about to say may be quite contradictrial to my personality but I can back it up with a decent reason.

There are time (like anyone else) where I have those days, when Metal is just too much for me, so I turn to alternative grunge ie:
Bloc Party, The Strokes, Muse ect ect...

The reason why I enjoy -these- bands is a simple one. Bass, I have favouritism to any band who actually let's their bassist be heard and these bands do it well.

Opinion?, Taste?, Both?

Most definetly, this is where -I- would agree with this statement. As stated above the reason why -I- enjoy these bands is because of my taste with a bass guitar. Opinion?, I try not to have one when it comes to music, fuck I actually enjoy DJ-Rock's Flaunt It song, and some of that DDR stuff isn't bad either.
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:48 pm

Cer, I know you've heard Porcupine Tree (and probably like their bass; ie Strip the Soul), but check out Pain of Salvation and Riverside. Both bands have some amazing bass. Pain of Salvation's "Night Mist" has some of the best bass I've heard in my life.

I just bought a bass myself, and am starting to play.

As for the question at hand, it really is kinda silly. At the core, metal is heavy and generally more complex than your average music. But the appeal of more popular music is the chorus, lyrics, and the hook. Repetition. Yeah, some metal can be pretty damn repetitive and definitely have an emphasis on choruses (power metal). The way I see it is that popular music is listened to mostly by casual listeners. People who listen to music as white noise. They want catchy melodies, simple lyrics with daily life appeal, and a chorus they can memorize by the end of the song. Metal isn't like that.

When these listeners get more into music, they dig deeper into the various components that make up popular music. They might get into techno for repetition and melody, classical for emotion and melody, punk for simplicity and energy, emo for being flaming homos, et cetera. And that's not to mention vocal appeal. Many metal singers have voices that you kinda have to get into, while those singers of many other genres have smooth, easily accessible vocals.

Despite all that, it's entirely about personal appeal. What you deem passionate and intense might be seen as generic and trite by someone else.

[And as for metal not doing funny, you obviously have not heard Dream Evil]
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Postby Otohiko » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:45 am

I like it when people ask "why do you listen to your music", even if the formulation intself is clunky.

Expand your tastes, man. There is a lot of energy in other types of music that's not found in metal - and vice versa, as you've stated. One needn't have a checklist of 'items to like in music' - that is, if you go on open-mindedly, the checklist itself will expand.

I an relate since, well, when I joined the .org about 3 years ago I had a much more narrow view of what was good music (back then it was limited to mostly prog rock, classic rock, avant-garde rock). Since then I've expanded into anything from texturist alternative pop to industrial to rock-n-roll to Russian punk, with a bit of metal on the side. There are very individualized reasons why I might like a band; I can't get the musicianship from Opeth in PilOt, but the latter offers a lot of the sorts of songwriting that have no place in metal; I can get intensity of a kind from a metal vocalist of your choice, and yet not one of them will offer the same sort of intensity as a certain Russian singer whose lyrics I'm known to whore lately, because again, his work doesn't fit into the metal frame and shouldn't be measured by it.

Anyway, everything needs to go on individual basis. When it comes down to it, loyalties aside - I don't like genres, I like specific bands; no, I don't even like specific bands, I like specific songs and even specific musical moments. And these musical moments may or may not have intricate solos going for them, and it's not what matters.
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Postby HeavyMetal » Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:24 pm

The concept of the casual listeners white noise makes since.

But as for simple lyrics, chorus and lyrics focus, and hooks you have KISS and Def Leppard.

Def Leppard is very lyric driven with tons of hooks. Or maybe even No More Mr. Nice Guy by Alice Cooper.

Even non-KISS fans no the lyrics to a KISS song, they're so simple to know.

I guess many Metal singers have leather lungs, but Bruce of Iron Maiden or Dave from Van Halen aren't unpleasant. For that matter Def Leppard is also pleasant. Or the band HIM for something from today.

Even if they found one band trite its not like there aren't about a billion other metal bands of all kinds; granted I think half of them have the same members.


Otohiko did I not say I've listened to a ton of other music?
But that I've never found anything in another genre not done by metal.

Its not a matter of being open minded or not. I would say I gave most other music a greater chance than most give metal.

I actually used to listen to a whole lot of other music. Then I just kept finding out about metal bands that did the same things, but metal.

Point taken on looking to individual bands (particularly since metal is mostly unique from band to band), but if you like certain things for the most part you will find them more in one genre than another. So at some point you can look at your CDs and say I have more of this type of music or my favorite band is this type.


I should probably point out that I do not break music up into numerous or strictly defined genre. To me there is but light and dark metal; call it speed, thrash, prog, etc it all goes back to the archetypes of Sabbath or Zepplin; beautiful or evil. The same thing goes for other genre as well.


I found my like of metal long before I knew the reasons for it, but reasons there be.

I just want to understand the the thoughts of others.

Anytime someone says hey listen to this I can pretty well always say try this metal band if you like that.

It’s a question of what makes you like your music?(I ask partially because so many hate metal. Though most listen to the media too much. Sanders is the real chicken killer.)

I spelled out the most general of things that draw me to metal, but so far we have a short list of reasons for other music:
White Noise/Background Listeners

(I do that with Metal, but I can see that many could not.)
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Postby Kai Stromler » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:13 pm

(quote reformatted to something more conventional to save space)

HeavyMetal wrote:The concept of the casual listeners white noise makes since, but as for simple lyrics, chorus and lyrics focus, and hooks you have KISS and Def Leppard. Def Leppard is very lyric driven with tons of hooks. Or maybe even No More Mr. Nice Guy by Alice Cooper. Even non-KISS fans no the lyrics to a KISS song, they're so simple to know.

I guess many Metal singers have leather lungs, but Bruce of Iron Maiden or Dave from Van Halen aren't unpleasant. For that matter Def Leppard is also pleasant. Or the band HIM for something from today.

Even if they found one band trite its not like there aren't about a billion other metal bands of all kinds; granted I think half of them have the same members.

Otohiko did I not say I've listened to a ton of other music?
But that I've never found anything in another genre not done by metal. Its not a matter of being open minded or not. I would say I gave most other music a greater chance than most give metal. I actually used to listen to a whole lot of other music. Then I just kept finding out about metal bands that did the same things, but metal.

Point taken on looking to individual bands (particularly since metal is mostly unique from band to band), but if you like certain things for the most part you will find them more in one genre than another. So at some point you can look at your CDs and say I have more of this type of music or my favorite band is this type. I should probably point out that I do not break music up into numerous or strictly defined genre. To me there is but light and dark metal; call it speed, thrash, prog, etc it all goes back to the archetypes of Sabbath or Zepplin; beautiful or evil. The same thing goes for other genre as well.

I found my like of metal long before I knew the reasons for it, but reasons there be. I just want to understand the the thoughts of others. Anytime someone says hey listen to this I can pretty well always say try this metal band if you like that. It’s a question of what makes you like your music?(I ask partially because so many hate metal. Though most listen to the media too much. Sanders is the real chicken killer.)

I spelled out the most general of things that draw me to metal, but so far we have a short list of reasons for other music:
White Noise/Background Listeners
(I do that with Metal, but I can see that many could not.)


WARNING: this response is probably going to turn out tl;dr, so if this is the case just skip down to the conclusion header.

This is what I suspected from the start, but couldn't really articulate over the like day and a half that I've been looking at this topic and trying to get in a succinct and correct response. The real question being asked here is not why people listen to other kinds of music, but why people listen to these other kinds of music over metal, when they're aware that metal exists and can provide a lot of what they're looking for. What follows as an answer is personal opinion, but may resonate with metalheads who have already answered, and with those who aren't into metal who want to know how this question even comes up.

If you took a total set of the general population and did a linear combine of their tastes with the total set of all existing metal songs, you would find that nearly everyone would like at least one metal song, but this would not be the same song, nor from the same band; they might like multiple songs, but most will come up with only a handful in comparison to metalheads. We'll refer to this set as the 'first 90%' of the population. If you play them the right song or songs, they'll like it, but they most likely will never buy a CD of go to a show. If they don't hear the right music, they'll be able to go happily through their lives without taking notice of metal at all. These people will never be 'into' heavy metal in the way that you and I are, and there is nothing that can be done to change this. Short of a total brain transplant, they will never become metalheads, and if metal were to change sufficiently to appeal to them, it would lose its own essential character. These people listen to other music because it is the music that exists for them; heavy metal is either not on their radar or enjoys no special status over everything else.

That was the first 90%; now for the next 10%. These are the people who have 'what it takes', personally and mentally, to become metalheads. This 10% is sampled from all people, everywhere; it's one of my strongest convictions on this subject that metalheads are not created but awakened: that liking heavy metal is not a conscious decision but an automatic or subconscious response. If these people never hear any metal, they will go on without it, but may or may not miss its presence. Once they discover themselves as metalheads, they will buy CDs, go to shows, and otherwise participate in the scene, though the level of such may wax and wane based on other things going on in their life. These people listen to metal because it is in them to do so, and it's at this level where "metal with outside element X' starts to be preferred over "outside music focusing on element X" simply because it's metal.

Among this 10%, though, we find the one-percenters, for whom metal subsumes everything else. This term is borrowed from biker vocabulary; the original contention is that only 1% of the population has the capacity to live the rock-n-roll, outlaw-biker lifestyle, but as long as 1% of the population lives this way, the spirit of rock'n'roll will never die. It is at this level that it's possible to ask the question posed by the OP in complete seriousness, because the one-percenters are so deep into metal and so aware of what it has to offer that, no matter what musical mood strikes them, they very seldom need to go outside of the loose and extremely broad boundaries of metal to get it. These are the people who spend every weekend at some show or another and nearly all of their disposable income on CDs and other merch. They make the scene go, and in nearly every place on earth, they will find their way into metal, because whatever intangibles it delivers are essential to them. If Asian Rock Rising wasn't offline again, I'd link there as a great tribute to the one percent in putting down roots for metal in countries that we in the west might not expect it to.

Conclusion:
1) People listen to music besides metal because very few people have the ability to make metal the mainstay of their musical diet.
2) This is because metal requires something as yet not accurately described from its listeners in order for them to make the necessary commitment to be metal fans.
3) Even asking this question indicates a disconnective state where it may not be possible to understand the answer.

hth,
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Postby HeavyMetal » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:39 pm

Articulate response, but the question really is what does other music have to offer? (I don't care if they do not chose metal.)

(It is a 'what makes them tick question.')

I personnelly will listen to anything, but 99.9% of the time will find the most satisfaction in metal. I know why I like it, but I have yet to come across a person that could explain why they like the music they do.

What you suggest is a sociobiological view.

But I find it takes that and sociology to make the true connection.

I found solice in metal as a different and often excluded person, but Metal was a path I walked to find yet more music. In the beginning I could have chosen from different options to the same end. So environmentally I was pushed to it, biologically I liked the sound, but there were other options in things like funk, punk, grunge, etc. I'm still a Kravitz and Nirvana fan.

What I am sayings is not why this and not that, but just Why. I can justify to myself the factors that make me like metal, but when I ask others why they like their music I get a shrug. If they do give an answer its in terms of things found in numerous other musics that they may completely hate.

For example if a Hip-Hop fan hates techno, but likes Hip-Hop because of the beat alone that would be a bit of hypocrisy in its simplest form. Techno is beat driven, but of course very different.

I believe that less is often more, but there must be a reason to chose a type of music that does not take the elements of music you like as far as metal.

So what I had hoped for is that someone could say I like country (or whatever) because...without making such a generic statement that it could apply to any music. Essentially I'm looking for a path of reason that leads somewhere new.
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