processor and custom built question

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processor and custom built question

Postby Orwell » Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:55 am

As intel is coming out with core 2 duo, two processors in one and 64 bit at that. But everything I have is designed for a 32 bit system and single processor. Will these applications still run fine? If they do, will they take advantage of the dual core system, or will they be engaging a single processor? 2.93 ghz per processor but only one used would mean that it'd be a waste to get it when one could get a 3+ ghz processor that would be used to its full potential. I don't see the dual core, 64 bit market taking off greatly until vista comes out, if then.

If I do go with the 64 bit system, will I need to buy a new version of xp?

Also, could someone recommend some decent sites that will build and ship you a computer? I've found a couple, but they're either backwater from nowhere that uses old materials or don't seem all that trustworthy.
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Re: processor and custom built question

Postby Willen » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:06 am

Orwell wrote:As intel is coming out with core 2 duo, two processors in one and 64 bit at that. But everything I have is designed for a 32 bit system and single processor. Will these applications still run fine? If they do, will they take advantage of the dual core system, or will they be engaging a single processor? 2.93 ghz per processor but only one used would mean that it'd be a waste to get it when one could get a 3+ ghz processor that would be used to its full potential. I don't see the dual core, 64 bit market taking off greatly until vista comes out, if then.

If I do go with the 64 bit system, will I need to buy a new version of xp?


The best thing about 64-bit processors that are based on the x86-64 architecture is that they are backwards compatible with existing 32-bit software. Although to actually take advantage of the 64-bit processing, you do need a 64-bit OS and 64-bit applications. So to actually get 64-bit performance with Windows XP you will need Windows XP Professional x64 Edition and the corresponding 64-bit drivers and 64-bit applications.

As for Dual Core processors, if you do any multitasking and are currently running a Dual/Multi Processor aware OS (WinNT, Win2K, WinXP) you can definately benefit. Dual Core will allow you to run multiple programs simultaneously without the performance hit that traditional single core systems will suffer (assuming you have enough RAM). And programs that can take advantage of Dual Core processing can see performance gains close to 2x depending on optimizations. For example, TMPGEnc can take advantage of Dual Core systems to decrease encoding times. I can do tests on my A64 X2 3800+ to find out how much improvement is realized encoding in TMPGEnc with both cores enabled, compared to when one core is disabled, if you are curious.

Programs that were written for single core processors will just ignore the second core. The OS then can decide to use the second core for other tasks or just not utilize it. Most applications today are multi-threaded so even they will see some benefits of running on a Dual Core system.
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Re: processor and custom built question

Postby sysKin » Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:48 am

Willen is 100% correct, but this is my version of the answers :)

Orwell wrote:But everything I have is designed for a 32 bit system and single processor.

Many of your applications are designed to work on multiple processors and you don't even know this (virtualdub anyone? :)).
Will these applications still run fine? If they do, will they take advantage of the dual core system, or will they be engaging a single processor?

Yes they will run fine. In the worst case, a single application might only use one core, but you almost always have more programs running somewhere in the background which will use the second core.
As for 64-bit-ness, if you don't use a 64-bit OS, this capability is disabled. This is what is recommended with windows because its driver support is horrible.
If you use linux, just run a 64-bit version instead, it will be a bit faster.

2.93 ghz per processor but only one used would mean that it'd be a waste to get it when one could get a 3+ ghz processor that would be used to its full potential.

Hopefully you're not talking about old P4/PD processors. They are very slow compared to Core, whether your application uses dual cores or not.
I don't see the dual core, 64 bit market taking off greatly until vista comes out, if then.

If you mean 64-bit Windows then yes. If you mean dual cores, that market has taken off long ago. I can't imagine anyone buying a single-core CPU these days, it's pointless. Almost all applications benefit from two cores, and AMD is now following up with double-dual-core for desktops (aka 4X4).
AMD's very successful dualcore architecture is now pretty much at second generation already, while Intel's sorry excuse for two cores (sorry, just plainly true until Conroe. Inter-core communication is waaay to slow) is cheap as cheaps.
If I do go with the 64 bit system, will I need to buy a new version of xp?
Only if you want it to operate in 64-bit mode. I don't see why you'd need do that.
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Re: processor and custom built question

Postby Orwell » Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:16 pm

sysKin wrote:Many of your applications are designed to work on multiple processors and you don't even know this (virtualdub anyone? :)).


As long as the computer runs I don't question it, enough eletronics kill themselves when I just use them, this computer would probably burst into flames if I started to figure out what all the hardware actually means. Thanks to both of you for the explanation, I think I'll just hang onto my 32 bit xp until vista comes out or I hear a good review of XP x64.

Willen - if it wouldn't be too much trouble, I am curious about it. I imagine the speed up in encoding will apply to all video editing/animating programs?

Also, could someone recommend some trustworthy, decent sites to order a custom computer from, that will include the core 2 duo when its released?
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Postby Joe88 » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:22 pm

Intel rushed their dual core out to beat AMD to the punch
but now is suffering for its mistake
kinda like the xbox 360 being released before PS3 Wii :wink:
will intel core 2 duo fix the problems ? who knows ...

here is an article from PC World mag on dual cores...
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as far as 64bit windows goes..
I was talking to people online and they said they were having bad program compatibilty with 64bit XP. some anti-virus program wouldnt work, a couple of popular games wouldt run ect..
I think theres a compatibility chart online some where.

As far as laptops go intel core duo wins the processor fight there
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but in desktops AMD wins.

Though I still perfer intel, I have always used them and will keep using them.
From my first intel i386 processor back in the day with a wopping 33mhz from my second and third DX ones and so on...
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Re: processor and custom built question

Postby Willen » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:27 am

Orwell wrote:Willen - if it wouldn't be too much trouble, I am curious about it.


I'll try to do it this weekend, since I have to convert some videos to DVD with TMPGEnc anyways.
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Postby Orwell » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:43 am

Alright, thanks. I'd still like an answer on some recommend custom computer building sites if anybody has any recommendations.
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Postby oldwrench » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:28 am

People like Dell and Tiger direct will custom build for you. If you really want high end stuff try Falcon NW http://www.falcon-nw.com/ . There are plenty of others, check out computer magazines, my favorite is Maximum PC http://maximumpc.com/
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Postby Gods Dark Angel » Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:43 am

I highly recommend tiger direct, its where i got my

AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3400+, ~2.4GHz
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Postby Joe88 » Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:00 pm

Go to http://www.newegg.com/
its probably the best comp retailer part online store
scroll to the bottom to see all the awords it has recieved :D
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Postby Willen » Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:10 am

Ok, I decided to encode a video in TMPGEnc that if you were curious, you could also do for a comparison.

For this test, I used the re-mastered version of Kusoyaro's Sappy Self-Indulgence (AVI / XVID 1848 kbps, 23.976 fps, 640x480 (4:3) / MP3 44.1 kHz, 192 kbps / 4:07 / 60.1 MiB).

Hardware:
CPU: AMD Athlon64 X2 3800+ Dual Core Processor "Manchester" (2.01 GHz, 512 KB L2 cache x2 (1 MB total), 90nm SOI, Socket 939.
Motherboard: ASUS A8N-E
RAM: 2 GB DDR generic Micron RAM (1 GB x2), dual channel
HDD: Hitachi 250GB SATA 7K250 (HDS722525VLSA80)

TMPGEnc settings:
DVD NTSC - MPEG-2 720x480, 29.97fps, 2-pass VBR (8000kbps max, 2000kbps min, 8000kbps average "auto" setting), Layer-2 48000Hz 384kbps, Motion search precision: Highest quality (very slow).

I left all the usual background programs and WinXP processes running (anti-virus, firewall, etc.), but closed all open programs (no browser, IRC, P2P, etc.)

Now for the results...

Test 1 - Dual Core enabled: Elapsed time - 00:15:00 (7431 frames)

Test 2 - Dual Core disabled: Elapsed time - 00:28:49 (7431 frames)

To disable Dual Core support for a program in Windows XP, start the program (TMPGEnc) then bring up the Windows Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del). Select the Processes tab and find the relevant process (TMPGEnc.exe). Right-click on it and select Set Affinity..., then uncheck one of the boxes (CPU 0, CPU 1). Now, if you select the Performance tab, your CPU Usage will be at 50% (instead of 100%) and one of the CPU Usage History graphs will be idle.

I might do a Dual Core/Single Core XviD encoding test later, but since it will be encoding from a large-ish Lagarith file that you won't have access to I doubt anyone will be able to duplicate it for comparison.
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Postby Orwell » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:09 am

I don't think mine would vary all that much from yours, it runs at 1.9 ghz, its supposed to be 2.0 theoritically, unless ram makes a huge impact. I'm rather curious though, does the motherboard make a huge difference in how stuff runs? A few sites I've browsed, they've given me options for various ones, but beyond the generic assumption that if you throw more money at it, it gets better, I know next to nothing about them. As far as duplicating this, I bought my current computer in jan 2000, and premiere says there's only a single processor. Was the dual core/two combined single cores out by then even? Thanks for taking the time to do that, I appreciate being able to see the difference.

Joe - I've used newegg for a internal to external drive case, but I've never seen them offer to build a computer for you. I do NOT trust myself to build a computer and would rather pay the labor/price jack up to just assure myself that it WILL work when its all done.

Will cooling make a large impact on performance? Someone mentioned that after they took the panel off and put a fan next to it seems to have run better, and right now mine is just sitting fully encased and inside a..... cheap desk computer slot that will either need to be remade or something if I decide to get something designed for storage. Kinda hard to hoarde on 700 gbs and your dvd burner will only burn stuff that will work on your computer alone.
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Postby Rem0 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:33 pm

Wow big difference with dual core! ^, I plan on upgrading when the prices are slashed in half by the end of the month. The 300$ 3800+ will become like 145$! Thats when i'll upgrade my single core A64 3000+.
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Postby Joe88 » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:00 pm

Yea dual core prices have really gone done
im putting this one in my new PC
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116238
3.0ghz dual core for $173 , not bad at all :)
plus I can OC to 3.9ghz without much of a problem :D
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