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Postby Scintilla » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:35 pm

scottyhotty wrote:
Kalium wrote:
scottyhotty wrote:Or hell, I'll go to Tower Records and steal a CD. Then I go out and play it outside on my portable stereo. I'm "Promoting the CD" and helping Tower Records sell more by showing people on the street that good music is sold there. Then I get arrested and ask why. Hmmmmmmmm.

Are you actually foolish enough to think that piracy somehome equates to physical theft? That your analogy isn't fundamentally flawed? If so, then you have larger issues to work out.

(ps - it's spelled YOU'RE, not YOUR... but don't worry, I make stoopid mistakes two)

<b>NO.</b>

"You're" = "you are".

"Your" = possessive second person pronoun, and therefore the correct word to use in Kalium's example.
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Postby Geirr » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:38 pm

Kalium wrote:
scottyhotty wrote:I was just trying to make a point. Piracy is theft. Stealing a CD is theft. Get the picture?

The only points you've made are these:
1) You're a music industry shill.
2) You cannot differentiate unathorized copying of an item from from physically taking an item, a distinction made in law and thus rather well-defined.

Stop trying to redefine piracy to be theft, we're not foolhardy or music industry shills.
WHAT HE JUST SAID, except we -also- need to STOP letting 'piracy' be the term used for "unauthorized private-use manipulation and sharing which MAY and SHOULD reside within FAIR USE." As another previous poster wrote, this hasn't yet been tested in court, so at least one can say these are 'grey market' issues.

Remember people importing autos by driving them around a bit in the country of manufacture, calling them 'used personal property, and doing it that way to GET AROUND stupid pollution laws? It was scrupulously complying with one set of laws so as to circumvent other laws by setting up a special condition under which those common, mundane laws didn't apply. And you got a BMW or a rare Benz out of the deal that could hit 217mph. Sweet-o.

Here's ANOTHER FUN (and hypothetical) EXAMPLE of "unauthorized duplication:" I have a home-built coal-fired foundry. A friend of mine has a machine, and one of the cast parts broke. So he brings it to me, and I place the broken parts in the sand together in the form of the whole part. I ram up the other half of the mold, and pour metal into the cavity.

Guess what: I just saved the guy about $175 since now he doesn't have top BUY a FACTORY AUTHORIZED replacement PART. I also have -no- obligation to ask permission of the manufactuer of the metal parts I melted down to create the "remix."

Heavens to Betsy, the 'original content owner'' has MISSED out on a FULL-PRICE RETAIL SALE.

Question: In this example, I would have made an 'unathorized duplicate.' So, did I "steal" anything? Can't you just imagine the maufacturers whining if LOTS of people knew how to do that with an old vaccum cleaner a popcorn tin, cement and a few bags of Kingsford briquettes?
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Postby x_rex30 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:50 pm

Scintilla wrote:
scottyhotty wrote:
Kalium wrote:
scottyhotty wrote:Or hell, I'll go to Tower Records and steal a CD. Then I go out and play it outside on my portable stereo. I'm "Promoting the CD" and helping Tower Records sell more by showing people on the street that good music is sold there. Then I get arrested and ask why. Hmmmmmmmm.

Are you actually foolish enough to think that piracy somehome equates to physical theft? That your analogy isn't fundamentally flawed? If so, then you have larger issues to work out.

(ps - it's spelled YOU'RE, not YOUR... but don't worry, I make stoopid mistakes two)

<b>NO.</b>

"You're" = "you are".

"Your" = possessive second person pronoun, and therefore the correct word to use in Kalium's example.
I think he may have been talking about me in that paragraph. He was talking about limewire witch I was talking about and not Kalium. I said to him "your just plain stupid" but the correct way to say that would be "you're just plain stupid".
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Postby yuppa » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:56 pm

Phoenix_X wrote:
That means moving to Canada would NOT get you out of obeying American Copyright laws


Actually they can’t really get you in Canada, but because it's an American hosted and operated site RIAA and conglomerates can remove the link at best. then i host it on my own conection and there is no problem.

http://www.digital-copyright.ca/billc60/blog?from=40

Actually in Canada we have some thing called Bill C-60, not yet passed by the House of Commons, but if it is, the result is 10 times nastier than the DMCA ever was.

What the Conseratives want- privacy.

What the liberals want- digital copy rights.

And there fore if they can never agree Bill C-60 will never be passed. And until it is i can download all the bootleg music i want!


A MEN! thank you for the assist^^. i totally agree with you on this. its so stupid how they are in such a uproar over this stuff.
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Postby V37 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:07 pm

then switch servers to Canada? lol
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Postby scottyhotty » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:06 pm

Kalium wrote:
scottyhotty wrote:I was just trying to make a point. Piracy is theft. Stealing a CD is theft. Get the picture?

The only points you've made are these:
1) You're a music industry shill.
2) You cannot differentiate unathorized copying of an item from from physically taking an item, a distinction made in law and thus rather well-defined.

Stop trying to redefine piracy to be theft, we're not foolhardy or music industry shills.


First of all, I work in radio, so I have a little understanding for the artists who do work hard to make their money. Sure they make a hell of a lot more than me, but still that doesn't give us the right to steal from them. They are people too you know.

But let me get this straight. You are saying that piracy ISN'T theft? Wow! I didn't know that! Someone call the lawyers who shut down Napster!

You sir, are probably one of those kiddy Gen-X gamers who believe that they own the world and can do as they please. Well, I hate to burst YOU'RE (sorry, I had to do that =P) bubble, but while the word of the law does make physical theft and D/Ling copied songs different, they are both stealing. Key word here is stealing.

steal ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stl)
v. stole, (stl) sto·len, (stln) steal·ing, steals
v. tr.
To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
To get or effect surreptitiously or artfully: steal a kiss; stole the ball from an opponent.
To move, carry, or place surreptitiously.

stealing

n 1: the act of taking something from someone unlawfully; "the thieving is awful at Kennedy International" [syn: larceny, theft, thievery, thieving] 2: avoiding detection by moving carefully [syn: stealth]
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Postby OnewngdAngel88 » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:12 pm

Just be thankful that it was only those specific amv's and not the entire website.
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Postby Kalium » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:35 pm

scottyhotty wrote:First of all, I work in radio, so I have a little understanding for the artists who do work hard to make their money. Sure they make a hell of a lot more than me, but still that doesn't give us the right to steal from them. They are people too you know.

Sure. That doesn't make black into white or water into wine, though. As for the radio bit that you imply, you are aware that the performing artist gets nothing for a track played on the radio, aren't you? The only royalties due are to the songwriter, and all of those are statuatory. Congress made this choice on the grounds of, surprise, radio being free promotion for the artist. If you don't believe me, check your history.

scottyhotty wrote:But let me get this straight. You are saying that piracy ISN'T theft? Wow! I didn't know that! Someone call the lawyers who shut down Napster!

That would be correct. Napster was shut down over the issues of copyright infringement and piracy, not of theft. If the issue had been theft, that Napster would still be going strong.

scottyhotty wrote:You sir, are probably one of those kiddy Gen-X gamers who believe that they own the world and can do as they please. Well, I hate to burst YOU'RE (sorry, I had to do that =P) bubble, but while the word of the law does make physical theft and D/Ling copied songs different, they are both stealing. Key word here is stealing.

Yes and no. Yes, the law does make a distinction. No, they are not the same. Let me provide you with functioning definitions:

Mirriam-Webste wrote:rMain Entry: theft
Pronunciation: 'theft
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English thiefthe, from Old English thIefth; akin to Old English thEof thief
1 a : the act of stealing; specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it b : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property

(definitions two and three left off as irrelevent)

I fail to see how copying a file is deprving the rightful owner of said file. Since I am not claiming that I own the copyrights, I have not stolen anything.

Mirriam-Webster wrote:Main Entry: pi·ra·cy
Pronunciation: 'pI-r&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
Etymology: Medieval Latin piratia, from Late Greek peirateia, from Greek peiratEs pirate
3 : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright

(definitions one and two removed as irrelevent - arr, matey!)

Now, which covers copyright infringement? Piracy or theft?

Ad hominum attacks will get you nowhere. Also, for the record, the so-called "Generation X" demographic is generally considered to have been born between 1965 and 1975, so I think you're a bit off.

Either way, my attitude towards the world has no bearing here. Rather, I simply refuse to let you and your RIAA masters redefine the language (and thus terms of this issue) as you see fit.
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Postby nightwingxl » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:49 pm

i am more amazed whoever that person was was able to contact Evenescene in the first place. getting as far as the lawyer is pretty good if you ask me. lol...but i've been wondering why the hell this hasn't happen sooner? i mean i was wondering when an unexperience little fan would wonder where AMVs come from and try to find out by getting other people in trouble. i am suprised it lasted this long.
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Postby Phoenix_X » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:54 pm

I think scottyhotty is an RIAA Spy, Joined this mornin eh? explain that for us ?
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Postby SuperFusion » Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:56 pm

Phoenix_X wrote:I think scottyhotty is an RIAA Spy, Joined this mornin eh? explain that for us ?


If he is one, you've got balls talking to him like that.


[MOD22: This thread has be locked for flames, witch hunting, running in circles, etc. Please move on.]
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