Isn't This Kind of like Cheating?

This forum is for the general discussion of Anime Music Videos.

Postby Resk » Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:51 pm

I don't have anything against either video, but I also don't have anything to justify why one should necessarily be bett than the other, and therefore deserve the number one spot. The fact still remains that both videos are good in their own ways, and are somewhat better than each other if you compare different aspects of the video.

Base opinions of the video on the videos themselves, not the reflections on them by a scoring system which has been proven faulty in the past.
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Postby Bakadeshi » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:36 pm

Arigatomina wrote: the effects are added on top of the video, made to be noticed, very blatant. Whisper, on the other hand, involves a lot of editing that wouldn't be picked up by someone who doesn't know the anime - a lot of the edits are replacing characters and doing it so well that only the Naruto fanboys will catch even half the 'effects'.


funny, I can actually tell every thing they changed because most of the masks are feathered a little too much. Silver_moons masks were done in the same style for her sasuke video. Even though I do know the series, I don;t remember every scene verbatum, yet I can see every edit they did, maybe just because I have a good eye for that. And I did not watch the making off video either.

About the comment that whisper of the beast didn;t have obvious effects:

Whisper of the beast also used alot of shine, blur, oldfilm, lighting, and movement effects, not just masking. Oh yea lets not forget the Advanced lightning effect when Naruto fought Haku. (though it was done realy well, so that may have not been noticed so easily had I not already seen that in the anime) Oh, and the rain/lightning effects in that scene with him in the room... It definately does deserve to have the digital effects enabled.
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:21 pm

I believe the point of this thread was that someone made a bunch of fake accounts for the sole purpose to switch the #1 and #2 video by giving all 10s and all 1s in ops. That person (it seems) was caught and the problem was fixed. Whether or not each video diserved to be in those places to begin with is completely irrelivent to the intentions of the thread.
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Postby Maverick-Rubik » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:10 pm

That wasn't the point of this thread. In fact, I added that part of the thread in and I apologize.

The thread (as you can see by the first post) is about whether or not disinvolving the effects category boosts your score (since it's a factor that is hypothetically not reduced, supposedly give you points).
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Postby BasharOfTheAges » Sat Jul 23, 2005 9:38 pm

go critical reading skills!
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Postby aoi_neko » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:11 pm

To the specific point: Yeah, I agree Whisper should should have had the effects box enabled. But I don't see what difference it makes. There were plenty of effects, but they were excellent and subtle. I don't even LIKE the video all that much, but I'd have given it a 9 or a 10 on effects. I can't believe it effects the scoring that much.

But more generally: The truth is that if you're looking at the opinion scale to make fine distinctions between numbers 1, 2 and 3, it's BROKEN for that purpose. Just about any scoring system can be gamed, and the opinions can be gamed more than most. It's very useful for pointing out the top twenty or top forty to newbies, and beyond that I don't understand why anyone would rely on it.
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Postby Garylisk » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:48 pm

I was shooting for top 10% for a while with Kyo's Habit. I came VERY close... still am close.. to getting on the list... but the difference between then and now is that I don't CARE anymore.

Top 10% is messed up, I never look at it.. I prefer the "Top Favorite" list... which would be way more accurate if peopel kept updated lists on their profiles of their top fave AMVs for the moment. That's a true, fair, 1 vote per 1 user per vid, popular concensus list.

Just that, of course, people don't keep them updated... or at stuck on "Euphoria is teh best!" or "Whisper is teh best!" etc... People stil have Odorikuruu listed as their faves.. and really, it's all about opinion in that list.. which is why it works, and ya can't cheat it easily.

Oh, and BTW, Kyo's Habit is teh bestest!@OMG!!1
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Postby Beowulf » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:45 pm

People make such a big deal about the top 10%. I think its best for your ego to come from inside your head, not from a .php file on a website. I think I'm plenty awesome without having to look at list to confirm it.

Competition is a good thing in moderation, just like everything else in the world, but this site is far to competitive in my opinion. You can't scratch your balls without some list reminding you of how many people had scratched theirs in your time frame, how long it took you, what other people thought of your performance, and where you stand against the other great ball scratchers of the ages. Its ridiculous. People feel like they have "lost" when they don't make it to the top10.

Whats worse is that due to the insane competition, the AMV is community is starting to assimilate aspects of other communities such as music and movies. How many videos have you seen that want to be like Euphoria? And how many videos have you seen with Naruto and Nu-Metal?

Everyone wants to de-throne the #1 video. Everyone wants to be #1. Everyone wants to be JUST LIKE the guy in first place, because maybe you can do it better than he can and people will start sucking your dick instead of his. The fact that theres is a 3 page thread of people arguing over if a video deserves to get the scores it gets just proves my point.

I really think the level of competition is directly responsible for the painful homoginization of videos currently. All the popular videos look exactly the same, and there is no reason to change because they are being "rewarded" with hundreds of all 10s opinions.

Whats the difference between Euphoria, Olin, and Naruto's Technique Beat? Nothing.

Whats the difference between Whisper Of The Beast, Toushi, Naruto's World, and The Narutix? I don't see any. And its not even worth going into the 20 some FMA AMVs on the top10 that are all completely the same.

This is the type of behaivor that record execs and bean counters are known for, not fan communities. Mix it up people, come on.
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Postby Koopiskeva » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:35 am

Usually i'd stay away from this but.. I'm tired and sleepy so..

gnite : ]
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Postby Sammy » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:40 am

Beowulf is one of the few members on this site I respect, and I agree with his above comments.
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Postby Mad_Cyric » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:49 am

Actually I didn't make this thread to argue what should be number 1 (or whether any video deserves its scores) and I'm pretty sure I've said that like 5 times.

As to the rest of your comments... you are truly masterful in your jackassery and/or dumbassery. That could perhaps be spliced with "wangtastity," that's really a matter that *should* be disputed.

I mean... what do you want? No more competition? No more gratification? Uhhh... a friendly non-opinionated hippie gallery? If you don't want any of that... don't show your videos to anyone! Then no one will compare them to anything else!

AMV is community is starting to assimilate aspects of other communities such as music and movies.

What does that even mean? It's an "anime music video!" It doesn't assimilate music and movies because it is music and movies!

Whats the difference between Euphoria, Olin, and Naruto's Technique Beat? Nothing.

Whats the difference between Whisper Of The Beast, Toushi, Naruto's World, and The Narutix? I don't see any.

That's just stupid... Maybe they're the same because they've "assimilated music and movies" into their production?

I don't know man, this community is only as competitive as you make it. If you constantly look at who's the best and whose videos are better or worse and what awards are being handed out then I imagine the AMV community becomes rather political and banal, but I don't think that most people see things that way. Go chill in the help forums or something where it doesn't matter what your skill is, maybe that will brighten your outlook. I think you've got the wrong idea about people trying to be like Koop or Scorpian or whatever. Maybe you're upset because competition compels people to make better videos, in turn making them more like Koop or Scorpian? I don't really see that kind of competition as a bad thing.

But if you're going to go around insulting everyone and imposing your ego on them, why don't you take your ideas of ball-scratching and dick sucking and "assimilate" the gay community into your music and movie free life.

I just don't even know what to say man. Don't be so bloody belligerent and maybe people will want to listen to you. But then again your seemingly self-contradictory statements, and general discontent with the very basis of AMVs and competition are kind of confusing.

I like Hail to the Thief almost as much as Euphoria if it makes you feel any better ^_^

The Top10% is not ultra-important, and it can't be perfectly accurate as it is, but it would be nice for it to be as accurate as it can be under the current system. There's no reason to base your success on it, but it's a decent guage. It's there to show videos that are worth downloading, and it's been good for that for a very long time, and I think everyone would like that to continue. But there are also other tools on the site for finding great videos.

I'll say this one last time: This thread was and is not about the problems with the system, the problems with the rating system (except this one), how good whatever videos are, or what rank something should be. Go start a thread about it if you want to talk about it; it seems like a popular topic! I don't want to be associated with all this griping and politics, I just wanted to bring up that *one* problem. So... glad we resolved that more or less.
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Postby mexicanjunior » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:10 am

This is much ado about nothing...
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Postby Castor Troy » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:17 am

Koopiskeva wrote:Usually i'd stay away from this but.. I'm tired and sleepy so..

gnite : ]


omg u elitist :|

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Postby Beowulf » Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:27 am

Mad_Cyric wrote:Actually I didn't make this thread to argue what should be number 1 (or whether any video deserves its scores) and I'm pretty sure I've said that like 5 times.

As to the rest of your comments... you are truly masterful in your jackassery and/or dumbassery. That could perhaps be spliced with "wangtastity," that's really a matter that *should* be disputed.

I mean... what do you want? No more competition? No more gratification? Uhhh... a friendly non-opinionated hippie gallery? If you don't want any of that... don't show your videos to anyone! Then no one will compare them to anything else!

AMV is community is starting to assimilate aspects of other communities such as music and movies.

What does that even mean? It's an "anime music video!" It doesn't assimilate music and movies because it is music and movies!

Whats the difference between Euphoria, Olin, and Naruto's Technique Beat? Nothing.

Whats the difference between Whisper Of The Beast, Toushi, Naruto's World, and The Narutix? I don't see any.

That's just stupid... Maybe they're the same because they've "assimilated music and movies" into their production?

I don't know man, this community is only as competitive as you make it. If you constantly look at who's the best and whose videos are better or worse and what awards are being handed out then I imagine the AMV community becomes rather political and banal, but I don't think that most people see things that way. Go chill in the help forums or something where it doesn't matter what your skill is, maybe that will brighten your outlook. I think you've got the wrong idea about people trying to be like Koop or Scorpian or whatever. Maybe you're upset because competition compels people to make better videos, in turn making them more like Koop or Scorpian? I don't really see that kind of competition as a bad thing.

But if you're going to go around insulting everyone and imposing your ego on them, why don't you take your ideas of ball-scratching and dick sucking and "assimilate" the gay community into your music and movie free life.

I just don't even know what to say man. Don't be so bloody belligerent and maybe people will want to listen to you. But then again your seemingly self-contradictory statements, and general discontent with the very basis of AMVs and competition are kind of confusing.


I like Hail to the Thief almost as much as Euphoria if it makes you feel any better ^_^

The Top10% is not ultra-important, and it can't be perfectly accurate as it is, but it would be nice for it to be as accurate as it can be under the current system. There's no reason to base your success on it, but it's a decent guage. It's there to show videos that are worth downloading, and it's been good for that for a very long time, and I think everyone would like that to continue. But there are also other tools on the site for finding great videos.

I'll say this one last time: This thread was and is not about the problems with the system, the problems with the rating system (except this one), how good whatever videos are, or what rank something should be. Go start a thread about it if you want to talk about it; it seems like a popular topic! I don't want to be associated with all this griping and politics, I just wanted to bring up that *one* problem. So... glad we resolved that more or less.


Like I said in my original post, nothing is wrong with competition. TOO MUCH competition however, is a very very bad thing for a community, particularly an artistic one like ours.

What I meant by our community "assimilating" traits from music and movie communities is that the music industry (particularly now) is all about product and profit. The lowest common denomonator is catored too, and if people find something that works, they copy it and milk it untill its not profitable anymore (see: The Boy Band explosion of the late 90s, as well as Jessica Simpson, Ashlee Simpson, and Christina Agulara all trying to copy Britney Spears). That is the essence of what I was talking about. I probably shouldn't have used the word "communities" when refering to the movie and music industries so my fault for being confusing.

Also, I'm not constatly looking at who won what and how. All I can make any of these judgements on is what videos I see and what everyones reactions to them are. And as of late I have seen of a bunch of videos that I don't enjoy that look ridiculously similar. People's reactions to these are overwhelmingly positive. This is where my views come from. Not from a chip on my shoulder nor from my ego. I value this community a lot and its upsetting to see it start to eat itself because people feel the need to "win" instead of expressing themselves. Its either that or people's expressions are all the same and there hasnt been a real idea in a year, but I'm not cynical enough to believe that.

I'm not trying to be beligerant, this is just the way I talk. To explain my point a little better I drew a pic.

Image

This is my argument. I believe our community is currently in the bottom right dot, and I would like for us to be in the top right dot.

Fin.
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Postby Moonlight Soldier » Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:47 am

Beowulf: You're missing the org's demographic. The majority of adolescents don't care about artistic value. Most probably wouldn't appreciate it.

Better to appeal to the few who do.
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