The "Good" AMVs on this website

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Postby Zero1 » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:10 pm

I hereby declare this thread: awesome
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Postby inthesto » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:13 pm

If I weren't lazy, I'd actually read through this thread and shatter the flimsy logic coming from some of the posters.

Instead, I'll just ask why some people are so god damn bothered by the sharing of (what are in their opinion) mediocre videos.

That, and I like my new avatar.
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Postby trythil » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:14 pm

Knowname wrote:gosh I hope not... I hope nobody has to resort to file-sharing any more, I enjoy many videos from the offending few and you, I just want to understand how somebody could be so SELFISH and uninterested in comments toward how they can improve.


Sorry to disappoint, but I'd rather be honest than dishonest.

I do this hobby because it's fun. I make AMVs when I enjoy it, and I stop when it wears me out, frustrates me, or bores me. Then I'll probably pick it up again and keep going.

The logical extension of that is that I should accept what criticism I want.
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Postby trythil » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:21 pm

trythil wrote:Sorry to disappoint, but I'd rather be honest than dishonest.

I do this hobby because it's fun. I make AMVs when I enjoy it, and I stop when it wears me out, frustrates me, or bores me. Then I'll probably pick it up again and keep going.

The logical extension of that is that I should accept what criticism I want.


I apologize for the word flub-up in the last sentence. I meant to write "I should care about what criticism I want to care about".
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Postby Knowname » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:27 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote:I do NOT take anime I like and try and put it to my favorite music. That NEVER works! People may enjoy doing it, but it makes for a video that only the person who MADE it can love, or at least that person and a few others.


Totally agree! In fact I both hate akira and the song I used, castle on the cloud. I think it's a very mediocre song that's fun to listen to once but not good unless put with a video (much like many OST songs... imo, not many can really stand alone and wouldn't get a second glance if not for the moment). But putting the two together is one of the best things I'd ever done. It felt like I was watching Les Mis in the theatre except animated (to nameless anime... whatever).

OK if I hated it I wouldn't be able to do it, I just dislike them. (and even more now, seperateley ;p)

And again we get to: ORIGINALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IF THE COMPONENTS OR IDEA ARE USED OR NOT!! How could it?? Do you keep track of every obscure, unreleased amv or even unfinished projects??

No, it all depends on the Idea and how well it's conveyed.
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Re: oh well

Postby Pwolf » Fri Jul 15, 2005 3:35 pm

didrox wrote:first of off i totaly agree with this guy: OtakuMan22. the "GOOD" AMV makers should help the noobs .this way better AMVs will rise from both noobs and "GOOD" AMV makers , due to better competition .


the problem with said "GOOD" amv editors helping newbs is that there is a reason why they are good. they take the time and effort to learn about editing and video (compression, ripping, preperation, etc.). i can't count how many times i've been contacted or read threads here on the org about newbs wanting help but arn't willing to learn anything themselves. the "good" editors don't have time to edit a video for you. there is a difference between (1)asking how to rip a dvd and (2)using the program and asking whats not working when DVD2AVI is giving an odd error.

(1) = typical newb who would rather not read the guides which has all the realivent information and step by step instructions of how to do the most common tasks.

(2) = possible future "good" editor or even a current "good" editor who doesn't understand or know how to fix a problem.

but then again, what makes a "good" edtor, "good"? the video quality of their footage? nah... its the editing... and that can't be taught. you can show someone how to make a cut and manipulate a scene. but it's the editors own expereinces editing which makes them "good".

as for this "good" music or "bad" music arguement... who's right is it to say somenes tast in music is bad? it's all opinion. someone can say linkin park is the worst band ever, but i still like them and enjoy most of their music. does that mean i'll make a video to it? well i already have. becuase the song is overdone, does it make the video bad? fuck no. its one of my favorite videos. but do you have to like it? i could care less if you liked it. i like it, and thats what matters to me.

i'm completely behind trythil in everything he's said. those who visit this site are "users" and are expected to be as such. you/we have no say in what or how this site is run. we can suggest things, but it's ultimatly up to phade. if you want to start the revolution, stop uploading <i>your</i> bad videos... or even better, stop downloading the "bad" ones! no one will care either way.


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Postby Pwolf » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:05 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote:I do NOT take anime I like and try and put it to my favorite music. That NEVER works! People may enjoy doing it, but it makes for a video that only the person who MADE it can love, or at least that person and a few others.


i take my favorite anime and music and put them together... why is that bad? i also enjoy what i make. does that mean no one else will like it either... shit, should've told me that earlier :|

why does that video have to only be loved by the one who made it? who says some guy in another state/country wont like the video either? the editor wont know that unless it's posted publicly.

How do you think all the good editors became "good"? we opened a magic box and the fairy dust turned us into these editing machines? we showed people our videos and were able to take the critism. you can only get so much constructive critism from your friends.

on the other hand, if you can't take the critism, maybe you shouldn't upload your video. but thats the editors problem.
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Re: oh well

Postby Knowname » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:12 pm

Pwolf wrote:as for this "good" music or "bad" music arguement... who's right is it to say somenes tast in music is bad? it's all opinion. someone can say linkin park is the worst band ever, but i still like them and enjoy most of their music. does that mean i'll make a video to it? well i already have. becuase the song is overdone, does it make the video bad? fuck no. its one of my favorite videos. but do you have to like it? i could care less if you liked it. i like it, and thats what matters to me.

nononono! Why does everyone think of this as good or bad? I'm not looking for what I'd call just good music or anything! I keep to the facts. I'm talking about the fact that most of what is available is from some obscure band from the boondocks! Not that I hate obscure bands. I'd just appreciate some videos to popular bands that I can relate with every so often. It bugs me that most likeley if I for some reason want a Linkin Park or even Metallica, Guns 'N' Roses or QUEEN video most likeley I will get a crap one NOT because Linkin Park songs stink but because 'good' creators tend to ignore their songs ALL TOGETHER! I would KILL to see another Romantic 'Crawling' video by Linkin Park.
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Postby Kalium » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:13 pm

OK, I was trying to avoid this, but there are a few points I need to address.

OtakuMan22 wrote:If I want to try and find a video that has a specific song, or anime, or specific genre of vid, then when I do the search, I come across a flood of REALLY bad videos. Since there are no opinions attached to them, I take my curiosity in, watch the vid...

...and get sorely dissapointed. At that point, I'll probably leave a comment/opinion and move on to continue my search for a good video. I find another link, no opinions (unannounced most likely), and go in to check it out.

That's the risk you take in doing something new. Like, say, watching a video you've never seen before. Most of us just accept this as the price of going going digging for treasure, and happily pay when we come across a bit of buried treasure.

OtakuMan22 wrote:...but what if it's not just you? What if ALL the fanboys and fangirls did this! Then not only would the space in the org fill up, but there would also be a wide number of more bad videos to sift through.

You don't seem to understand: that, ultimately, is the Org's goal (well, part of the goal). To have every AMV ever made availible here.

OtakuMan22 wrote:If you only really want your video to be seen by 2 or 3 people, what is the best way going about doing it? Using a file sharing program, or even the file transfer setup of AIM and Yahoo Messenger, or posting to the org without making an announcement?

You send them a CD. You use FTP, IM programs, or something else. A p2p program is overkill, and your chances of finding the exact file in question are slimmer.

OtakuMan22 wrote:And what's more of an honor than an award for your vid. You are right that awards are not the largest motivation for vid creation, but it is a good motivator for GOOD vid creation!

Depends who you ask. I wouldn't consider awards a motivation, myself. Kudos, certainly, but not a motivation. I don't need any rewards, awards, or honors. I do this because I want to, and that's all the motivation I need. The satisfaction of knowing I produced something I can be proud of is all the reward I need. Anything beyond that is gravy.

OtakuMan22 wrote:Hey, even some Rush and songs by Styx OTHER than Mr. Robotto! (Why has no one used "Blue Collar Man" before?!)

Been there, done that. Twice. It's not as exciting as you might think.

didrox wrote:first of off i totaly agree with this guy: OtakuMan22. the "GOOD" AMV makers should help the noobs .this way better AMVs will rise from both noobs and "GOOD" AMV makers , due to better competition .

OK, a few things. First off, we do try and help the less experienced (leave me putting myself in the "GOOD" camp aside for the moment). We try and offer what assistance we can, which is mostly technical and theoretical. If someone doesn't have the needed idea, they aren't going to get it from someone else (although someone else may spark an idea). On the other hand, those with experience and skill didn't have it handed to them on a silver platter, and neither will you. There's only one way to acquire experience, and some things can only be learned through experience. For that matter, some things can't be learned. There is such a thing as innate talent.

Second, AMVs come from both experienced and inexperienced creators regardless of other factors. If you had to have experience to edit, we'd have a nasty paradox on our hands (of the chicken/egg sort).

Third, you seem to be functioning from some sort of twisted Darwinian viewpoint here. There are a few highly competitive editors around, but not all of us are that way. Competition doesn't drive this community, not in the conventional sense of competition between discrete agents. Self-competition is a much larger driving force, but that only requires one person.

Pwolf wrote:How do you think all the good editors became "good"? we opened a magic box and the fairy dust turned us into these editing machines?

I don't know about you, but I had this really strange dream involving some rather fantastic and magical creatures... erm, yeah.

On the larger issues here, I stand solidly with Pwolf and trythil.
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Postby Kai Stromler » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:20 pm

Kalium wrote:
Pwolf wrote:How do you think all the good editors became "good"? we opened a magic box and the fairy dust turned us into these editing machines?

I don't know about you, but I had this really strange dream involving some rather fantastic and magical creatures... erm, yeah.



I opened the magic brown bottle with the deer on it in the bottom of my fridge and had a kind of combination of these two effects.

And it's late, and it's the weekend, and there is too much drama in here, so I'm off to see if I can duplicate the effect.

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Postby OtakuMan22 » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:22 pm

MAN! I just love getting into these heated debates here! :)

Alright, let's do some dissecting:

OtakuMan Wrote:
I do NOT take anime I like and try and put it to my favorite music. That NEVER works! People may enjoy doing it, but it makes for a video that only the person who MADE it can love, or at least that person and a few others.


Boy, THAT sure came out wrong! Oh man, is my face red on that one!

The point I was trying to make with that statement was that if you have an anime you like, and you have a certain piece of music you like, BUT NO CONCEPTUAL IDEA OF HOW TO PUT THEM TOGETHER, then it won't work. If the only common thing between the anime and the music that you have when making the vid is the fact that you like the two, then chances are slim that the video will really be good or amuse even you after it is put together.

I believe that to make a good video, you got to have a common theme or idea that holds the video together, that relates the anime to the song and vice versa. Here, it helps if the music and anime have a relationship that works well for one another.

HOWEVER, even if the anime and song DON'T mix well, a good video can STILL be made by using clever editing techniques, and this is where the true nature of being the AMV "Director" comes into play.

A good example of this is "Pop-Up Excel":

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_videoinfo.php?v=18817

The song is a somewhat serious song by Jewel, mixed with the hyperactive super-funny Excel Saga. The two, by nature, should not even come CLOSE to working. Yet, the editor got it so that the two somehow worked and worked FANTASTICALLY!

Now, a few quotes that struck me on the "share vids directly" versus "posting on the org" argument:

gosh I hope not... I hope nobody has to resort to file-sharing any more, I enjoy many videos from the offending few and you, I just want to understand how somebody could be so SELFISH and uninterested in comments toward how they can improve.


Knowname summed up my feelings exactly on the selfishness aspect. It seems awfully selfish to post a video on the board and NOT expect opinions, or even listen to the ones you get, good or bad! To use the org as a file sharing service that keeps hold of whatever passes through, to me, IS selfish! It's this notion of selfishness that got my goat to begin with!

I do this hobby because it's fun. I make AMVs when I enjoy it, and I stop when it wears me out, frustrates me, or bores me. Then I'll probably pick it up again and keep going.


While this is an okay notion for most hobbies, I find a problem with this logic when applying to something that is shared with a wide audience. I think back to a scene from Comic Party...

!!!SPOILER ALERT!!!

Our main character has just made a BAD doujinshi that didn't sell one copy! He had made a good one before, but the second one stunk and it was seen by the sales. He was trying to figure out what he was doing wrong, and eventually decides to give up on doujinshi. But what he didn't know was that he had made a fan during his time making doujinshi, and she was VERY eager to see his next work, even AFTER his bad doujinshi! She wanted to see him improve and continue doing what he did! He then decides to continue doing doujinshi for the fans, no matter how many or how few, and believes that in doing this, he can better himself at the doujinshi making!


In this sense, I equate Doujinshi writing and drawing to AMV making. One of the most important things that you can get is opinions that explain how good or how bad you are. If you get bored or tired, and decide to stop, then that's okay, IF doing so is not leaving lots of fans or other people behind. It would dissapoint them!

Imagine if you were a good AMV maker, and then did a bad AMV. For one reason or another, it just didn't work. Would you then decide to just give up and quit? Or in another case, would you continue to make them half-ass? Or would you bite the bullet and work at making a better AMV, and even looking to re-doing the previous one to make it better!

If you're going to go public, expect opinions, both harsh and good, and the org is to strive to take AMV making SERIOUSLY! Sure we all come here to enjoy vids and share vids, but what's the point of doing so if there isn't any passion or desire to make them good! It doesn't have to be unique, or 100% original, but it should at least have some sense of quality to it, right?

Totally agree! In fact I both hate akira and the song I used, castle on the cloud. I think it's a very mediocre song that's fun to listen to once but not good unless put with a video (much like many OST songs... imo, not many can really stand alone and wouldn't get a second glance if not for the moment). But putting the two together is one of the best things I'd ever done. It felt like I was watching Les Mis in the theatre except animated (to nameless anime... whatever).


For a minute there, I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or truly agreeing. After some re-reading I see what you mean! You are right that taking songs and anime that may not be your personal faves, does not mean that a good vid can't be created out of the two. You had an idea, implemented it, and it worked! Even if they weren't your all time faves, it worked, and you felt good about it! :)

If there was something that worked, but not my favorite, in either anime or music, I'd certainly be willing to give it a try! :)

And again we get to: ORIGINALITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IF THE COMPONENTS OR IDEA ARE USED OR NOT!! How could it?? Do you keep track of every obscure, unreleased amv or even unfinished projects??

No, it all depends on the Idea and how well it's conveyed.


Totally agree! Although was it me that said that thing about originality? I don't think I said that, did I?

what makes a "good" edtor, "good"? the video quality of their footage? nah... its the editing... and that can't be taught. you can show someone how to make a cut and manipulate a scene. but it's the editors own expereinces editing which makes them "good".


You got a good point there that the best thing to do is to have the time and energy to be able to make the vids in order them to have a sense of quality around it. I also see your point about how some things can't be taught, and often times, the best thing to do is point people out in the right direction.

In defence of some n00bs, I think that it's a good trait to be as patient with them as possible. I've seen people marked off as total n00bs and their requests, but they weren't trying to be lazy or ignore the rules of the forums and threads, it's because they didn't know better because of one reason or another. I still answer questions from a fellow here named Amon_1, which he greatly appreciates since he lives all the way out in Monaco, and his English, while getting better, isn't perfect. Being tolerant and understanding has made him feel welcome here on the boards!

i could care less if you liked it. i like it, and thats what matters to me.


As far as music goes, you are right that an overused song or overused anime doesn't automatically = bad vid. The gripe I have is that for some of these, weeding through the bad vids to find the good ones, the one that best uses the anime or song, or even has a totally original idea surrounding either/or, can be a complete pain. Especially if you are browsing and not looking for anything in specific.

I understand that if you like the vid, and someone says it stinks, that's subjective yes. But the thing that bugs me from Trythil is that it's not "vic bashing" that he's ignoring. He comes off as soundling like he's ignoring EVERYTHING OTHER PEOPLES SAY, GOOD OR BAD! For example, if you made a video that you thought was good, but someone thought it could use some improvement (as in they see your idea or point, but have some suggestions for key scenes or parts) and then posted some constructive criticism, would you ignore it just because it's criticism alone?

those who visit this site are "users" and are expected to be as such. you/we have no say in what or how this site is run. we can suggest things, but it's ultimatly up to phade.


I think I came across incorrectly there. I am not saying that people should be banned for using the space for hosting their personal vids that they really only want 2 or 3 people to see, BUT...

...while the person who loaded the video has every right as a user to place it there, I would expect that as a PERSON they would have the respect to take what criticism or praise comes to them, and actually LEARNS from the comments people make. The common courtesy of being nice to others when they want to talk about your vids is something I would hope many vid creators would do.

The second thing I want to get across is that EVERYONE on this site is a critic and with the opinion system in place ARE ENCOURAGED TO BE SO! Criticism and ratings and opinions make the backbone of a good portion of the features on this site. To have a vid creator completely disregard these key functions and ignore other people, as if we don't exist, just comes off as selfish and rude. As users, we have also have the right to criticise videos, point out flaws, but the best way to do it, and the best way it is explained in the Opinions FAQ, is to be polite and offer constructive criticism.

I am in NO WAY advocating vid bashing like this:

"OMG!!!11 U R THE SUXORZ!! LOLOLOLO!!1111 \/\/h@t R U? Sum k1nd@ n00b!?"

That's just DUMB!

Dumb AND mean!

When I talk about criticisms and opinions, I'm talking more like this:

"I really liked your video using Naruto and the classical music piece from Pump It Up! Although the synching was off and made it hard to really get into the video. Perhaps you can re-make this one by going in with a different video player or two to check to make sure that the play-back is in synch with the music? If that doesn't work, then maybe there can be a way to get the synching better in your editing program? I really thought your vid had some great potential, but it needs to overcome the synching problem with the music in order for it to be really good."

I'm talking stuff like that! This, to me, is CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and from what I read in the Opinion FAQ, this is EXACTLY why the Opinions section exist.

To ignore the opinions completely risks missing out on comments like this which can be motivational and helpful!

And finally...

or even better, stop downloading the "bad" ones! no one will care either way.


You know, I've been having problems descerning the good from the bad ones because some vids, for some reason, don't have any opinions attached to them when 1, 2, or even 9 people give opinions. I can see WHO left opinions, but not read what they said. This then makes it very difficult for me to know if it's good or bad, and really makes searching for good vids difficult if the opinion isn't available. I know the opinions aren't given in the search results, but there seem to be more and more individual vid pages that don't have the opinions listed.

Why is that?

Well, enough out of me. I don't think I have time to post on this more for tonight, but I think I got enough of what I wanted to say across. Hope that helps!

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Re: oh well

Postby Pwolf » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:23 pm

Knowname wrote:
Pwolf wrote:as for this "good" music or "bad" music arguement... who's right is it to say somenes tast in music is bad? it's all opinion. someone can say linkin park is the worst band ever, but i still like them and enjoy most of their music. does that mean i'll make a video to it? well i already have. becuase the song is overdone, does it make the video bad? fuck no. its one of my favorite videos. but do you have to like it? i could care less if you liked it. i like it, and thats what matters to me.

nononono! Why does everyone think of this as good or bad? I'm not looking for what I'd call just good music or anything! I keep to the facts. I'm talking about the fact that most of what is available is from some obscure band from the boondocks! Not that I hate obscure bands. I'd just appreciate some videos to popular bands that I can relate with every so often. It bugs me that most likeley if I for some reason want a Linkin Park or even Metallica, Guns 'N' Roses or QUEEN video most likeley I will get a crap one NOT because Linkin Park songs stink but because 'good' creators tend to ignore their songs ALL TOGETHER! I would KILL to see another Romantic 'Crawling' video by Linkin Park.


i wasn't talking to you about that. more like a general statment. i don't think "good" creators ignore linkinpark and other popular bands, but either don't like them for what ever reason or have no ideas to use with their music. personaly, i have no ideas or have seen good videos to a song and feel satisfied watching those instead of making one myself

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Postby Kalium » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:29 pm

OtakuMan22 wrote: But the thing that bugs me from Trythil is that it's not "vic bashing" that he's ignoring. He comes off as soundling like he's ignoring EVERYTHING OTHER PEOPLES SAY, GOOD OR BAD! For example, if you made a video that you thought was good, but someone thought it could use some improvement (as in they see your idea or point, but have some suggestions for key scenes or parts) and then posted some constructive criticism, would you ignore it just because it's criticism alone?

He's exercising his right, as a human, to pay as much attention as he wishes to whatever he wishes. That may mean you get ignored. Just as you are not obliged to offer criticism, he is not obliged to pay attention to it.
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Postby Pwolf » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:31 pm

otakuman: you can always do what i do to weed out the bad videos...

only download videos the "good" editors say are good :P of course, i don't have nor the will to watch amvs all the time, so it's perfect for me.


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Postby Pwolf » Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:32 pm

Pwolf wrote:otakuman: you can always do what i do to weed out the bad videos...

only download videos the "good" editors say are good :P of course, i don't have <b>the time</b> nor the will to watch amvs all the time, so it's perfect for me.


Pwolf


fixed >.>
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