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Postby Otohiko » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:05 pm

I'd generally agree with Coffee, although it'll take me some time to be able to really pick out everything in it. A good start though, for sure, but definitely some work would benefit.

Meanwhile back at the Space Groove... GAH! I got so frustrated about the hospital scene that I basically decided to delete it completely and restart it from scratch. So, here I am indeed, scratching my head. Something, I'm sure, will eventually work.

Other than that, some definite improvements I'll soon have, but several very minor things are still giving me a headache. The dreaded lack of footage is starting to come back to haunt me...

[edit]

New beta to be sent out tonight unless I end up totally hating the new changes :roll:
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Postby Coffee 54 » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:08 pm

Otohiko:
Watched new beta, not much changed, so not much to add. 0:23 fixed. 0:59 seems to be moving faster now, looks nice. 1:23 - 1:32 improved, but not yet perfect.
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Postby jasper-isis » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:39 pm

Hmm, I think I will talk to both of you on AIM about the betas. That would save me quite a bit of typing - the "speculative" bit, I guess.
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Postby Otohiko » Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:55 pm

Thanks!

And I'm sure it's not perfect. It never will be :wink:
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Postby bum » Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:13 am

Oto used Instant Messengers now? last time I saw the guy on msn was last year.

Oh and, about my clip......................... :)
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:16 am

Ah yes, that reminds me that I've been lazy to get on MSN... I've just been using AIM to distract Jasper lately - but I'll get on IM soon enough. I'm running out of other things to do, so... :roll:

***

What is the status of all the segments, exactly? I guess the situation with the five I've now seen (including my own) plus Songbird's is pretty clear, but what about the rest?

Like I said, if there's a need, I could potentially do another segment.
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Postby bum » Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:10 am

COMPLETE BETA FINALY FINISHED THE DAMN THING Y444444444YYY

Ok so I rushed the end a little to get it uploaded quick. Its realy low quality so ya probably shouldnt watch it full screen. And it rough, very rough. I plan on spending a good amount of time geting this thing to a decently edited state. But first it would be great if everyone flamed my ass and mabey gave a little constructive criticism.
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Postby jasper-isis » Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:50 pm

Oh, I'll give you constructive criticism. But only if you agree to be a little more confident about your track. :wink:

And if you read my suggestions to your earlier betas on these pages first:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... &start=210
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... &start=285

Also, it might be easier for us to talk on AIM instead.
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Postby jasper-isis » Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:18 pm

Coffee: there are only three things that I want to mention about your revised beta (which, surprisingly, was posted already two pages ago).

1. The fade-to-black of the 1:40 clip might look better if you coincide it with the drums that come in at that time. That is, try starting the fade at the very first drum beat.

2. I like your slides at the very end. However, they seem to become more rushed as the track approaches its end. Can you tweak them so that they come in at slightly more equal intervals?

3. Your overlay work at 1:21 looks cool! But the shifting images stick out because, well, they don't seem to be synched with anything. They seem to be going a little too fast.

You're almost done! Hooray.

EDIT_________

Oh, and also, since you've found that it's possible to zoom in without destroying the footage, perhaps you can try a more dramatic setting at 0:55-1:01. Like, maybe zooming to 120% for each of the clips?
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Postby Coffee 54 » Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:55 pm

Revised, Revised Beta: Link

Jasper-Isis wrote:1. The fade-to-black of the 1:40 clip might look better if you coincide it with the drums that come in at that time. That is, try starting the fade at the very first drum beat.

Check.
Jasper-Isis wrote:2. I like your slides at the very end. However, they seem to become more rushed as the track approaches its end. Can you tweak them so that they come in at slightly more equal intervals?

Check.
Jasper-Isis wrote:3. Your overlay work at 1:21 looks cool! But the shifting images stick out because, well, they don't seem to be synched with anything. They seem to be going a little too fast.

They are synced. To the 'do de do de dewlewdew' part. I made some slight changes, I may adjust more. But, if stretch them out much more, they really won't be synced to anything.
Jasper-Isis wrote:Oh, and also, since you've found that it's possible to zoom in without destroying the footage, perhaps you can try a more dramatic setting at 0:55-1:01. Like, maybe zooming to 120% for each of the clips?

Check.
Jasper-Isis wrote:You're almost done! Hooray.

Almost done? My segment was perfect since the first full beta. It's just, you know, more perfect now. :wink:
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:30 pm

Bum: You really do need to have more confidence. Yes the ending is a bit rushed and chaotic, but I'm sure it will turn out fine.

But most of all you need to chill out a little, you've got this idea in your head that you can't do it and that's messing you up. Not only are there a lot of great editors here, but some of them have a lot of experience with this kind of editing and music. I hardly even consider ideas that aren’t instrumental and plot driven anymore.

As for your section, there is no way I'm going to let you drop out of the project completely. The first minute already meets and in most places exceeds the requirements for being in this project as far as I'm concerned (minor polishing aside.) If you really think that the ending isn't working then we can split the section (as I may do with my own) and have someone else edit the end. But I really don't want to do that for two reasons:
1. I know you can do it.
2. Throughout the section your editing matches the music perfectly. I for one couldn't even begin to match the feel and energy of that chaotic crazy fast guitar, but you do it perfectly. All you need to work on is making it a bit easier to follow.

One piece of general advice I should have given earlier is not to change scenes too much. In the beginning you a a ton of cuts when that monster thing goes berserk, but since the viewer can follow what's going on, they just add to the adrenaline. Later on you have so many different events and they go so quickly that they are hard to follow. Here are some that you might want to try expanding: the fight in the hallway, the girl hiding behind a rock and getting shot at, the main character coming to the rescue.

The timing is great but it seems jumbled, you need to show less and have it be more understandable. It doesn't have to be a coherent storyline, but the viewer should be able to tell what's going on.

Now that I have watched it over and over I'm beginning to understand it structurally and in terms of discrete events. You just need to prune your concepts and give the important ones room to grow. You already have some amazing musical synch, that cityscape/window scene fits so well it's amazing.

It might help you to break you video into sections and name them thematically. So you have the introduction to the city section, which fades, into the health section with that crazy doctor guy, then you have an action section, a teammate section including the fight, a nightmare (?) section, a defending the girl section, a jail section, and a conclusion, which I can’t really follow, but it focuses on the girl. Try to make these segments more distinct and recognizable.

Is the footage at 1:30 speed up? It looks odd. And what the hell is that yellow thing?

I could give you more nitpicky things but at this point you, might still need to move things around or add and delete scenes to help the thematic aspect of the piece.

Last but not least: speak up. What do you not like about your beta? What is giving you trouble? What are you trying to portray? The more we know about these things the more we can help.

Jasper-Isis wrote:2. I like your slides at the very end. However, they seem to become more rushed as the track approaches its end. Can you tweak them so that they come in at slightly more equal intervals?


That's when you know a segment is almost finished, when your beta testers disagree on the timing of specific clips... (originally the were all the same speed, but I advised him to speed up the last ones so he could hold the pictures on the screen longer and viewers wouldn't miss the ending.)


*looks up*

Rose would be proud. 8-)
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Postby jasper-isis » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:39 pm

pen-pen2002 wrote:*looks up*

Rose would be proud. 8-)


Aw man, let's please not start talking about him as if he were never coming back. x|
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Postby pen-pen2002 » Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:53 pm

Ha ha! another long post. This page is mine!

we may have another completely finished segment :P

Jasper wants to delete her source files so if you have any last comments now is the time.

I'm posting my review of her beta just in case anyone has anything to add to it or comments or anything.

Overall It is excelent in sych/flow and story. It might be a little fast paced and hectic in parts, but this may work much better once it is part of a larger project, which will make the constant high energy more appropriate. There is a lot of story going on very quickly here. Fortunatly you have good use of color to define it and a couple key scenes (training with the wrecking ball, the betrayal, the rescue.) That instantly cause the viewer to fill in the story for themselves.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many color shifts in an AMV. They were probably in the source footage but either way they do a great job of transitioning especially at the trampoline bunny suit sceane (0:20). Speaking of which the first half of that scene is a little weird. A colorful bunny falling is just to absurd to be dramatic. Perhaps you could try putting a blue filter on to make it match the second half of the scene which seems to fit much better.

The only thing I don’t really “get” is the scene with the scene with the girl standing on that flying platform. I got the impression that it was probably a scene that is very representitive of her success, but it doesn’t translate that visually quite. It kind of stands out because it is a bit odd and (the way it is cut) not as impressive or dramatic as some of the stuff around it, although this could be partially attributed to the music change. This is the only part of the video Which really doesn’t quite work IMO.

I don’t know if I mentioned this before but what really makes this vid shine in terms of flow is internal synch. So the opening and the wrecking ball scene come of as particularly nice.

0:04 I like the costume transition.

0:14 you have an extended “reaching” metaphore here that really defines the section.

0:15 Is it just me or were these from diferent places? When she touched the bar it didn’t look like she was falling, just sort of standing and reaching for it, maybe it’s just the animators fault.

0:25 what’s this expresion supposed to be? Although it’s a bit to fast to matter.
0:27 a lot of switching of costumes and from practice to performance here but the clip does fit well.

I love the angel

0:50 I don’t know how you timed that tightrope fall…

0:53 excelent pacing and use of overlays

0:57 this gets me every time, amazing redemption scene, right over the fires the color change the expresion, everything. This section is very epic.

!:15 this scene is perfect in terms of mood but does leave some questions


1:17 heh, this is a nice little detail, it’s kind of like an orphan clip, fits the music but is so short it’s hardly noticeable. It underscores the transformation, from practice to performance.

Good Job!
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Postby Otohiko » Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:26 pm

Heh, I'll have to whip myself into nitpick mode shortly. Especially as far as Pen-Pen's and bum's segments; I don't know if I can say much about Coffee's because I'm now officially biased towards it and I'm afraid to ruin the original artistic approach of it with my petty meddling. :roll:

Jasper - you have no complaints from me. Maybe because I wasn't thinking too too far into the individual symbolic meanings of each scene like Pen-Pen seems to have :P Maybe that's because I never took Kaleido Star too too seriously and just enjoyed it for the whole 'don't give up' message plus soap-operatic drama combined with great graphics - which the video certainly delivers. And I mean, visually/editing wise, I really ought not to have complaints, because I really consider it the segment to look up to in that regard.

***

I've gotten about 3 tips from Jasper on still-outstanding issues in my vid, which I plan to fix up in a day or two. So if you got any more - do tell. Otherwise, I'll follow suit and delete my project files, freeing up space for perhaps even another track if we happen to need one :)
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Postby jasper-isis » Sat Jun 18, 2005 9:24 pm

Pen-pen: since we've talked about this, you already have my replies to those comments. :P

Otohiko: thanks! I wonder if I, myself, can ever make another Kaleido Star video that's more representative of the "serious" themes in the show than this video is. Kaleido Star is one of my favorite series, and I never thought that I'd exhaust it [almost] on a short MEP segment - but I'm really happy with what I've done here, so it's all good. :)

Here is my final beta. I've only made two changes. I added the blue filter in the beginning, and I replaced two of the clips in the short diabolo section to make it more obvious that she's using a diabolo. The sparks add to the tone of "intensity," I guess. I really can't think of any other way to tweak that tiny part, so unless anybody can think of a working suggestion, this will be final.
Last edited by jasper-isis on Thu Jun 23, 2005 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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