AMVs and my digital video class

[DDramone]

ok, i joined the digital video class at my school and was lucky enough to get some really serious editing lessons there, but my digital video class focus's on narrative short stories. there are some music videos that get done their, but they dont tend to focus on editing so much as visuals and all that. they still work, though. maybe its cuz we have to shoot our own stuff, and the amver already has it shot so he can focus on editing? comments?

most of my editing chops came from my class personal project (wich took 6 months to make!). it was a 7 minute mockumentary about a republican zealot (spelled right?) who tries to prove that all democrats EAT BABIES! it was titled "a modest accusation." haha, get it? scored by the likes of the dead kennedys, the misfits, the subhumans, and black flag, and if i do say so myself, i think it was the best thing to come out of that class that semester! with like half the school my audience, i havent gotten a bad review yet!

anyways, enough bragging *dusts' shoulders off, straightens collar* my question is, now that i have my very own adobe premeire that i had to whore myself for, how to i transfer my gineus in narative editing to make those great, fast cut, punk rock and neuclear holocost AMVs ive been waiting to make for oh so long?

some techniqes i learned are like when to fade and when not to. they said i shouldnt do fades unless the time, place, or both were changing. but i was thinking in an amv, if 2 people are looking at each other and we see from one persons POV and fade to the others, and theres some soft music playing or something, a fade would be fine, right?

another thing is, how long of a time do you give a shot before you cut it? in vids that i've seen, it kind of annoyed me when there was fast music but long, drawn out shots, even if there was a lot going on in the shot. i always felt those vids needed more fast and synced cuts. but in my movie, i had fast stuff playing all the time with some fairly long shots. it probobly was better in the narrative cuz i had narration going, and fast cuts would only distract from it. but what's it mean for an AMV? do you really need fast cuts for a fast song? how often can you rely on the visuals to get you over instead of sync of pace?

transitions are also something that differs from alot of AMV stuff. i pretty much learned that anything thats not a fade or a hard cut just doesnt work! all the fancy transitions with wipes shaped like stars or other crap, or 3d shapes, or other crap just kinda looks stupid in movies (besides star wars). i've seen some great AMVs that use these though. personally, it always kinda bothered me even before i joined this class, but then WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THERE FORE? are music videos (and star wars) the exeption to this rule?

also, i signed on to help with this graduation DVD thing, were we take stills and footage of as many senoirs as we can just haning out and acting natural and put it to music (we usually edit the song to about half it's size). these edit's tend to have alot sower cuts. maybe its for sentimental value? also, one of the best peices of advice ive gotten for editing these things is that you dont always HAVE to be on beat (though some similarity to the beat would be nice). but even with all the amature vids that are out of sync on this site, most good amvs tend to focus alot on sync. its something that even profesional musiv vids dont do, at least to the extent shown here. lax sync works ok for the vids i've been working so far in this class, but for an amv? probly not. why do amvs focus so much on sync?

anyways, just some stuff i though might spark a good conversation. i've got my baby eating vid on avi, and once i leanr how to work a computer i'd LOVE to show it off a bit. kinda a big file tho (maybe ill recompress it or something?). by the way, the anime nerds in my class say you guys are friggin crazy!!! i mean, like editing wise. thought you org vets would like to no...

[Kai Stromler]

there are some music videos that get done their, but they dont tend to focus on editing so much as visuals and all that. they still work, though. maybe its cuz we have to shoot our own stuff, and the amver already has it shot so he can focus on editing? comments?

It's probably because the conventional idea of what an "AMV" is has diverged significantly from the general expectations of short-form music video. Music videos in general use tend to use the visuals to advance the music (pretty understandable, since nearly all music videos are made for promotional purposes and it's the music that's on sale), while a lot of people go into AMVs expecting them to have a primary connection to their visual source, with the music used to advance that. You can still do AMV from a conventional music-video standpoint, but some people may not immediately "get" what you're trying to do.

now that i have my very own adobe premeire that i had to whore myself for, how to i transfer my gineus in narative editing to make those great, fast cut, punk rock and neuclear holocost AMVs ive been waiting to make for oh so long?

Load up some DVDs, rip some tracks, and just go straight in based on your influences. It's probably superfluous to tell this to a punker, but it's always better to go with your gut and do what you want to rather than try to adjust that to conventional wisdom.

transitions are also something that differs from alot of AMV stuff. i pretty much learned that anything thats not a fade or a hard cut just doesnt work! all the fancy transitions with wipes shaped like stars or other crap, or 3d shapes, or other crap just kinda looks stupid in movies (besides star wars). i've seen some great AMVs that use these though. personally, it always kinda bothered me even before i joined this class, but then WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THERE FORE? are music videos (and star wars) the exeption to this rule?

No. There are no exceptions. Cheesy transitions exist for two purposes and one other reason: to fool amateurs to thinking they're acceptable (so that pros can laugh at them), to enliven atrociously boring training videos and other cut-rate product intended for internal corporate consumption, and because some programmer thought that it would be cool to make the screen do something like that, then actually coded it up.

ne of the best peices of advice ive gotten for editing these things is that you dont always HAVE to be on beat (though some similarity to the beat would be nice). but even with all the amature vids that are out of sync on this site, most good amvs tend to focus alot on sync. its something that even profesional musiv vids dont do, at least to the extent shown here. lax sync works ok for the vids i've been working so far in this class, but for an amv? probly not. why do amvs focus so much on sync?

This is just a theory, but I'll contend that it's in part a carryover from the days of nonlinear analog editing, when synch was actually hard to do, and in part it is because synch has become so easy: when you have an easily locable four-tempo with obvious drum hits like most popular songs do, it's easy to look at the waveform and say "this should guide what I do in terms of placing video". It also may have something to do with the implicit "anime first" assumption mentioned above: when you approach it from the standpoint of "anime taking on aspects of a music video" rather than "song X videographed using anime Y", it's natural to think of the degree to which the anime is synched with the music as a prime determinant of quality.


Of course, I could be totally wrong on the above as I generally edit music-first and don't have a clue as to how most of the editors out there actually approach their work mentally. Either way, sounds like you've got a solid foundation and I'm looking forward to seeing some more real underground vids making their way into the catalog.

--K

[Pwolf]

it's good that you took a class on editing. i took a class last year when i didn't need to. i've been editing for 5 years so why did i take it? well, you can't know everything

anyway, your questions are hard to answer. to me there are many factors that come into play when choosing the right scene and what to do with it. what's the anime? song? should i do a cut or should i fade in? how long should the fade be? that all comes from editing the video. you wont know until you get to that point.

if 2 people are looking at each other and we see from one persons POV and fade to the others, and theres some soft music playing or something, a fade would be fine, right?

its sounds like a good idea, but without actually doing it, there is no way in knowing if it will work. one of those things you think about before you edit and have to try when you are editing. will it be fine? sure, in theory.

how long of a time do you give a shot before you cut it?

depends on the editor, song, style... shit, a bunch of things. i've seen videos make short fast cuts/fades to a song i would've used longer fades and scenes. it all depends on how it looks to you. if you think you should cut or fade on a certain beat/tone/riff then try it out. if it looks good to you, thats all that matters. it's all about rythm, and if you can keep the same rythm and consistancy throughout the video, it will help tremendously.

WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THERE FORE? are music videos (and star wars) the exeption to this rule?

Why are they there? well, home users who want to make a family video like the flashy transitions. it's a selling point. will you ever use them for making an amv? maybe, maybe not. it's up to you. it depends on the video. i can't think of any amvs off the top of my head that use those specialized transitions... it's 3am, i can't think all that much

you dont always HAVE to be on beat

YES! i know a few editors that have this idea that you have to do something on a beat. make a cut, do an effect, ect. thats not the case. you don't have to do anything. if you can make the video flow and keep a rythm, thats all you need. if your video doesn't have some kind of rythm, the viewer looses interest.

professional music videos, say on MTV, are different then AMVs. the directors have a lot more to work with. they might not make their cuts on a beat or sync their cuts the same way as we would, but they still have a rythm. You have more control over what is in the video. most of the time, you can see someone or more then one person singing the song (assuming there are vocals). that draws the viewer in as you can see the person(s) singing. there is movement: other band members banging away on an instrument, dancers, props, special effects. We don't have those thngs, so most of the time, in order to create a rythm, you have to sync.

But, we can still use movement in a scene to flow with the song. watch Intro City by Tsukin. to me it looks like the movement within the video flows with the music from scene to scene. don't really looks like he's creating a rythm by cutting on the same beats. the ryhtm of the video comes from the scene selection and the movement within those scenes.

hmmm i think i typed too much... anyway... all of what your asking comes from experience. it's hard to answer it with a yes or no becuase there is no yes or no. it can be either. it's something you need to figure out as edit. can't really show someone how to make the "right" cut or fade. i can tell my brother that editing a sceen one way will look better, but to him he thinks that his way of doing it is better. thats just our differences in style and his way ends up looking good anyway.

ok, it's late now, good luck editing


Pwolf

[trythil]

anyways, enough bragging *dusts' shoulders off, straightens collar* my question is, now that i have my very own adobe premeire that i had to whore myself for, how to i transfer my gineus in narative editing to make those great, fast cut, punk rock and neuclear holocost AMVs ive been waiting to make for oh so long?

If you're that great a genius, shouldn't this be trivial?

[MomochiZabuza]

anyways, enough bragging *dusts' shoulders off, straightens collar* my question is, now that i have my very own adobe premeire that i had to whore myself for, how to i transfer my gineus in narative editing to make those great, fast cut, punk rock and neuclear holocost AMVs ive been waiting to make for oh so long?

If you're that great a genius, shouldn't this be trivial?

Genius' are stupid

[madbunny]

It sounds almost as if you're trying to figure out if you can apply your film theory to making AMVs.

Absolutely yes. There are some differences between music videos and movies, but the essentials: telling a story using visuals and sound apply. As for using basic editing tools like fades and timing, you'll have to figure that one out on your own. AMVs are more of an art form and thus open to interpretation unlike movies.



Using cheesy film effects has only ONE exception. You can't use them unless you are rich and famous. Quentin Tarantino gets away with it because he is Tarantino. Lucas gets away with it for the same reasons. If you try to use one of the canned effects in your video, be prepared for derision and ridicule.


Good luck.

[Qyot27]

Using cheesy film effects has only ONE exception. You can't use them unless you are rich and famous. Quentin Tarantino gets away with it because he is Tarantino. Lucas gets away with it for the same reasons. If you try to use one of the canned effects in your video, be prepared for derision and ridicule.

Unless you're BogoSort.

In other words, it works more often if you're intentionally trying to make it look cheesy for some sort of parody video.

[Rozard]

Using cheesy film effects has only ONE exception. You can't use them unless you are rich and famous. Quentin Tarantino gets away with it because he is Tarantino. Lucas gets away with it for the same reasons. If you try to use one of the canned effects in your video, be prepared for derision and ridicule.

Unless you're BogoSort.

Well, you just provided evidence; BogoSort's rich and famous.

[Qyot27]

Using cheesy film effects has only ONE exception. You can't use them unless you are rich and famous. Quentin Tarantino gets away with it because he is Tarantino. Lucas gets away with it for the same reasons. If you try to use one of the canned effects in your video, be prepared for derision and ridicule.

Unless you're BogoSort.

Well, you just provided evidence; BogoSort's rich and famous.

Yeah, that was kind of an afterthought. If I could come up with a better example I would.