Proposal for Honest Op week

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James Sharp
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Post by James Sharp » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:58 pm

well good point. but i think if they were to do that it would bring down some of the really "great" vids.. and people dont give honest opps in the first place. and that would not stop it. that just means that normaly someone gives a video an 8 when it deserves a 5. with that method they would just give it a 10 if the average was changed to 7...does that make any sense??
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My newest vid:
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Arigatomina
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Post by Arigatomina » Sun Apr 24, 2005 2:59 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:The thing is.. I am asking people to op random videos. Statistically, if enough random videos are given honest opinions (ones that are honest in score and helpful to the creators) it should help with the average.
I'd definitely support that. The only problem with that would be getting people to leave reviews, especially the people who typically leave 'strict' reviews. Most of the ones I've received reviews from are people who spend an hour or more per review. You can't expect them to review as often as other people would.

My main problem with your post was this line:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:So, my idea sprang from this conjecture: "What if a lot of honest people started leaving a lot of honest opinions for a lot of these mediocre and bad videos?"
A random sample may include the videos being inflated (the rare good and excellent videos, only a fraction of the total vids here if you glance at the top 10 list). But most will be the ones you've listed - the mediocre and bad.

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Post by Arigatomina » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:07 pm

James Sharp wrote:...that just means that normaly someone gives a video an 8 when it deserves a 5. with that method they would just give it a 10 if the average was changed to 7...does that make any sense??
Makes perfect sense to me. I did an experiment when they changed the top 10 list to use 8 as average (comparing scores to the inflated 'overall' score). I raised almost all my reviews by 1 point (it *should* had been 2 points according to the 'average', but I wanted to stay a little stricter than that). The result? My reviews that were close mixes of 9s and 10s were suddenly all equal. And the overall average on the site raised by about .13 in all categories (I'd changed over 350 reviews, so it had a visible effect). I didn't like it, and neither did the creators I'd originally given the reviews to. I changed them back a week later.

My point - the website already uses 8 = average for ranking the top 10 list. So if you like 7 and 8 being average, you're already getting what you want. Just hope those who still use 5 as average don't go adjusting their reviews to fit the 'norm.' It really screws with the overall average and makes it impossible to rank high quality videos - anything over an 8 now would be equal at a 10 max.

I think it's better to support lowering the average, than raising the 'low-scoring' reviewers to fit the norm.

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Al'x
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Post by Al'x » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:53 pm

I really don't see why there are a few people that have to keep all their given op scores averaging at 5.5, and where most people give a 10, they only give a 8. You aren't helping anybody! You are just making the person you gave an op to wish that somebody who scores like most people do had left an op instead of somebody who thinks leaving all low scores will somehow help this site. If you leave scores which reflect the site average, whoever you gave an op to will appreciate the opinion more. Even if 5.5=average scores does help the site if everybody does it, in reality this doesn't actually help since there will always be people who give 8=average scores.

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BasharOfTheAges
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Post by BasharOfTheAges » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:55 pm

Al'x wrote:I really don't see why there are a few people that have to keep all their given op scores averaging at 5.5, and where most people give a 10, they only give a 8. You aren't helping anybody! You are just making the person you gave an op to wish that somebody who scores like most people do had left an op instead of somebody who thinks leaving all low scores will somehow help this site. If you leave scores which reflect the site average, whoever you gave an op to will appreciate the opinion more. Even if 5.5=average scores does help the site if everybody does it, in reality this doesn't actually help since there will always be people who give 8=average scores.
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godix
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Post by godix » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:12 pm

My problem with this idea, and part of the reason I don't give unasked for ops, is that if I give someone scores I consider decent but are below the sites average (an 8 is below site average for every catagory) then the reaction is 'he gave me low scores, he must think I really suck' even though from my standard of scoring an 8 means 'decent but not great'. By suggesting giving unsolicited ops you're setting people up for a lot of misunderstanding and hard feelings.

So do what I, and several others I've noticed, do. Offer free ops in the op exchange board and let people know ahead of time you give lower than site average scores so they don't get suprised by it. You shouldn't experinece (much) complaining about it that way, they knew what they were getting into to begin with. You'll get a wide mix from the pretty awful up to the great to view so things will slowly (very slowly given how long I take) start to lower the sites average if enough people do it.
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Post by trythil » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:14 pm

I say we just randomize the current scores in the database, as it is easier, requires no human intervention, and will more immediately accomplish your goal of re-establishing the bell curve centered around 5.

Since, you know, it's that important.

(Don't attempt to argue that this is a way to make opinions more useful. It's not, because an average is an average no matter how it is normalized. If you wanted to help out, you might propose a way to enforce that people leave coherent, thoughtful, written suggestions in the comments box.)

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Al'x
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Post by Al'x » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:21 pm

Another reason not to leave random opinions : some people don't read them! The only time I leave an op outside the opinion exchange is to people who I know actually want them.

Bashar: If you want to make the op system more "honest" try this : leave more comments! If you have less than 100 word count average, that hurts the site way more than an inflated average for opinions.

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James Sharp
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Post by James Sharp » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:40 pm

well said. i value a score of 10 with little comments FAR LESS than i value an average or even low score with a well thought out and explained opinion..witch brings us back to the infinitly said line in the org.. its in the guides. if people wanna help with opionions then they should read the guides on how to make good opinions and live by that. if giving detailed opinions means they give less opinions. then that would help also. because it would decrease self pimpage and we are all guily of that :)
Close calls are always the most exciting. Coming close is always the most dissapointing.

My newest vid:
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/forum/v ... =3&t=98816
I welcome any and all advice on how i can improve

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BasharOfTheAges
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Post by BasharOfTheAges » Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:58 pm

This wasn't just a suggestion of the way people act about opinions. In fact this wasn't about why opinion scores are inflated at all.

My entire idea here is to get others (and myself) to get together and choose a week that we can randomly op as many vids as possible. The focus has changed from this somewhat though.

Back to the topic... would anyone be interested actually doing this for a week? Not changing the system in it's entirety (which is something that needs to be done by the mods), but attempting to do somethign positive to reform the scoring system on our own.

It might not work to a desired conclusion, but i feel every little bit can help.

Godix, I score quite harshly as well and have tried this method (picking random videos to op) in the past. I think it may fit your style. I honestly think the opinion system would benifit from more people like you.
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