Second Instrumentality: Around The World in 80 Minutes

Discussion & organization of Multi-Editor Projects
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Tsunami Jones
is the best medicine.
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:31 pm
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Post by Tsunami Jones » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:36 pm

Al'x wrote:Is this over... ?

That's a good question, as there's currently no one actually leading this project anymore.

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Otohiko
Joined: Mon May 05, 2003 8:32 pm
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Post by Otohiko » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:49 pm

Well, give me a couple of days here, and I'll let you know if my hopefully-increased bandwith will allow me to do something like this. If it does, I'll take over it provided there's enought interest and perhaps someone who'd be willing to assist with FTP space.
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

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Tsunami Jones
is the best medicine.
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Post by Tsunami Jones » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:42 pm

That'd be cool if you did. I was looking forward to this.

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Otohiko
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Post by Otohiko » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:02 am

Well, we'll have to see - of course, it'd still be nicer if someone did it instead of me. The current difference is in whether I can scratch up enough money for better internet access. Right now I have such a low limit, I can't even download AMV's. The question now is whether I get unlimited transfer, or only 20down/10up. If the latter is the case, I don't think it would be enough to realistically keep up with managing a project. :(
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

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rose4emily
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Post by rose4emily » Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:06 am

Just don't get cable. Cable sucks for trying to run a server, and here is a list of reasons why:

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Many major Cable Internet providers (notably Comcast) have decided that running a server (even for non-commercial use) of any kind is "bandwidth abuse" and against their Terms of Service.

Because of this, many users on Cable Internet connections find that such important ports as 20, 21, 25, and 80 are all completely blocked to outgoing traffic, along with several of the higher-number ports used by some of the various non-www internet technologies such as P2P applications, media streaming services, telnet and ssh-type services, distributed file systems, and multiplayer network gaming technologies. While the non-www technologies often offer alternate ports that can go around these blocks, it's generally pretty important to run a web server on port 80 and a mail server on port 25 if you want to keep things running smoothly with a minimum of hassle.

Upload speeds are capped at about a tenth of download speeds, so you get 1.5 Mbps download bandwidth, but only 150 Kbps upload bandwidth, which is, if you do the math, only enough to serve three simultanious 56k connections, at best.

And that's the cap. Since lines are shared, peak usage times often are cause for even lower upload speeds, as well as noticable drops in download speeds - thanks to the fact that the cable companies sell far more bandwidth than they actually are able to provide.

---

I'd advise DSL for running a server, if it's available in your area, and will likely switch to DSL myself as soon as I get the chance. It also happens to be cheaper in most regions where it is offered - so I think the reduction in download speed is well worth it considering the greater upload bandwidth and degree of freedom with which it can be used.

Then there's the really fun stuff like T1 and T3. Unfortunately, you pretty much have to be a multinational corporation to affort that sort of connection - but they offer a level of reliability and consistency of speed that is unmatched by consumer broadband pipelines like cable. I have contemplated the idea of trying to run non-profit T1/T3 shares, however, and they could theoretically be both cost-effective and far more technologically attractive than individually purchased consumer broadband - but they would also have to reside within a limited geographical region to work, considering the cost of running all of the networking infrastructure. Really, such an idea would be best suited to office parks and apartment complexes inhabited primarily by students and/or professionals.

There's also the idea of root-access hosting to be expored - hosting where you have full administrative access to the particular server responsible for your files (through SSH, most likely, to remove any geographical limitations from such a service) and can thus run server-side applications and such in the same manner with which you would be able to do whatever you want with a machine in your own home - giving you the best of both worlds in terms of infratructure and flexibility of use. It would be more expensive than shared-server hosting, but shouldn't be too bad on the pricing range as server hardware is really the least of your concerns when compared with the cost of bandwidth and infrastructure. To illustrate, I purchased a 2.6GHz Athlon machine from HP to use as my server for under $500. Is is grossly overpowered as servers go, as it is capable of spitting out content at over 100 times the maximum upload rate allowed by my connection - and has done do on many occasions for file transfers behind my router. The annual fees of the only internet service available in my apartment complex - RoadRunner, are in excess of $400 (split three ways, but so is the bandwidth). Using the server at 1/100 of capacity for a single year is almost as expensive as the server itself - and most web servers could get by blissfully on hardware commonly thrown into dumpsters if no one is trying to use them as graphical workstations at the same time.

When I'm accessing my site from outside my network and all-text pages are slow to appear, I know there's something seriously wrong with how bandwidth is marketed and then regulated. 3 KiB pages are supposed to show up almost instantly, even on a 56k. Yet, somehow, they don't.
may seeds of dreams fall from my hands -
and by yours be pressed into the ground.

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Otohiko
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Post by Otohiko » Sun Oct 31, 2004 12:14 am

Oh, I full-well realize the deficiencies of cable. Unfortunately, I don't have any options right now (I'm already in a 12-month contract with a cable provider, and have had their most basic package for about 4 months now) - besides, I'm yet to learn of a non-cable, non-dial-up provider around here. There may be DSL, but I'm yet to hear of it. And a T1/T3 line would require some kind of an 'industrial' solution around here (laying cable?) and is way out of my financial reach.

I think if I decide to run some server, I'll have my brother pull some strings among his contacts and buy me some webspace; but that is also out of my financial reach, for now.

***

I haven't got the access yet, and my computer's been down for a couple of days (thank you Windows crash).

:( So for now, the prospects of me running something are shady at best.
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

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rose4emily
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Post by rose4emily » Thu Nov 04, 2004 12:43 am

Individuals can't afford T1 in the first place (well, maybe really wealthy individuals...). It does also require special wiring to be run from the provider to the customer as well, thus involving a considreable up-front cost.

I just had my little rant about cable because the ISP I have to go through back home just decided that no servers of any kind, even of a non-commercial nature, can be run across their lines. There's a three-month period of inaccessibility that will really help me run the big software project I was planning to enter full-force at the same point in time that I'll be unable to administer it's web interface. It looks like I'll have to re-think that forum administration software I had just started to configure.

Yet they still collect their monthly bill.
may seeds of dreams fall from my hands -
and by yours be pressed into the ground.

ooshna
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Post by ooshna » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:25 pm

Are there any Arab cities not taken?

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angelx03
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:13 pm
Location: In school, Rochester NY mainly RIT; in home, Tampa, FL
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Post by angelx03 » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:28 pm

Uh, I thought this project was dead. :|
ImageImage
Image

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Otohiko
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Post by Otohiko » Wed Dec 01, 2004 9:33 pm

Hey, it doesn't have to be dead. I just don't have the technical resources to host an FTP for the project; anyone who does is welcome to pick this up. I'd help, in fact, and make a vid if I find footage to use.
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

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