AWA Pro - It's a shutout

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Postby Voices_Of_Ryan » Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:38 am

Illia Sadri wrote:Oh goodness enough griping and moaning and groaning.

I was one of the vids that didn't make it in any category. Oh well I can care less. My vid was unfinished before Otakon. It was there that I decided to finish the vid for pro just to see what happens. I wasn't expecting anything and frankly its perfectly fine. Hell I don't liek my pro vid much at all so its not going to bother me.

Simply put there were a lot of great videos. Not everyone could win or it would defeat the purpose of the contest.

Does that mean that I agree with all the final nominations? Nope. Actually the video I liked least got nominated in at least one category. However I can agree with a good deal of the chosen videos being on the list. I have opinions on a few not being the best in their respective categories. However there are 58 different editors with different tastes. That's the fun part of pro.

And the bull on needing aftereffects. There were plenty of vids that did not use it at all. Actually I was quite pleased that many videos opted for either simple effects that can be done in premiere and others used very few effects.

Simply put you didn't make it. So what? All it means is you try again next year and see if you can do better. But to cry out on things being unjust reflects poorly on yourself.


Unjust and confusing are two diffrent things.

Whats confusing is, why the general idea is that it's a blind contest, and yet... it's not.
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Postby Illia Sadri » Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:18 am

The fact is no contest is going to be entirely blind. Sure some vids were at other cons. Some vids certain editors know their friends did.

I knew quite a few of the vids in the contest. Did that influence my judging? Not at all. The videos I thought were the best in each category are comprising my final voting list (my prelim votes were weird and incomplete because I did not get my disks until a couple days ago) Again..... most of the deserving videos got in.

It is one thing to be annoyed to an extent or feel a little ping of dissapointment. However to go on a forum and whine on a video not making it in and how it was made to get recognized..... come on. 58 editors are going to have different opinions. And it goes beyond favoritism and after effects.
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Postby norskotaku » Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:40 am

I don't think anybody here was "whining" that their video didn't make it. Brakus needed some support and the reminder that after effects alone does not make a winning video (at least not in everyone's eyes) and I believe most people replying to this thread have given him just that. that's part of being a community, understanding when someone's ego may be bruised and giving them the old pat on the back and "don't let it stop you from trying" you know.

perhaps you are taking things a little personal since you appear to be so proud of your own judging skills. I'm glad you are, though, and I'm glad that you can keep your approach to the videos professional. but don't assume that everyone else holds themselves to the same standards you do. chances are some do and some don't, and in the end we have to hope that the extremes will balance eachother out.

I, however, do believe that it is possible to run a truly blind contest. disqualifying any video that is found to have been shown in a previous contest, or any that are already online, would hopefully convince the entrants to save their video for the con, thus not sharing it around with their friends first. one of my recent videos that I can't talk about yet was shown to all of a few close friends, only because I knew none of them would be judging or would know any of the judges or coordinators involved in the contest. that's just me following my hope that the contest is indeed well organized and blind to a fault.

The ability of a contest to be blind is determined by the entrants themselves and how they handle their videos, not by the judges and staff alone.
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Postby Illia Sadri » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:20 am

well we have a contest that is as close to blind that is possible.... that would be masters. That is the contest that everyone has to premiere the video at and has very strict confidentiality standards.

I think one of the things that is best about pro is that you get judged by your peers and to an extent you do get to guess who made certain vids. Some people are guessing videos based on editing styles or anime that is known to be liked by a person. That is fun. But to basically piss on the opinions and judgement of those involved was demeaning.


And no a simple ask for support is one thing. "aw shucks I didn't make it in and I worked hard on that video" would have been just fine. I took offense to the whole speel of how the fellow editors and judges have been so unjust and lumped him in a category as being unworthy. That his/her video was overlooked in favor of lesser videos. Its an insult to everybody who placed their vote in what they thought was the cream of the crop in their minds.
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Postby norskotaku » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:30 am

ok, I understand you taking offense to it and pointing out that it can be considered an insult to everyone involved. perhaps that was the intent, perhaps not. either way it doesn't matter at this point. while it may not have been justified to put it that way, most people overlooked the tone as that of someone who had just received an insult themselves.

in other words, he most likely fealt insulted by the results of the contest (as I have myself in the past) and the normal reaction is to voice an opinion that often comes out harsher than it needs to. I did the same back in the day. some people took offense, and others knew I was just lashing out for a moment and would regain my composure soon enough. maybe that's why I want to be understanding in this case, since I've been in that position and remember how it fealt.
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Re: AWA Pro - It's a shutout

Postby TaranT » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:57 am

Brakus wrote:...I wonder if any of you out there can give encouragement for those of us that didn't make the final nominations lists for AWA Pro... things that happen like this really tend to discourage me from making more AMVs.... how can I keep myself motivated to making AMVs and competing on the same level as the heavy-hitting power-editors?

It doesn't matter how many contests you enter, you'll always have a twinge of disappointment when your vid doesn't make it. That's normal. The more contests you enter, the less it'll bother you.

And I'd suggest purging this idea that hard work and practice will bring success. The world is full of losers who busted their butts and became good at something. For every competitor you saw at the Olympics, there were hundreds who worked just as hard and didn't make it. People want to believe their blood, sweat, and tears are worth something, but the gods of chance only laugh at them.

It's a tough lesson, but that's the way it is. You have to decide for yourself what you're after.
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Re: AWA Pro - It's a shutout

Postby norskotaku » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:30 am

TaranT wrote:For every competitor you saw at the Olympics, there were hundreds who worked just as hard and didn't make it.


very well put. and how lucky we are to have so many opportunities. imagine if there was only one big amv contest every couple years and you only had a shot at one small part of it. lol.
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Postby Ashyukun » Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:16 am

Voices_Of_Ryan wrote:But umm... There was so much pure bs in that contest it really makes me continplate entering next year (I probably will).

On a contest that was suppose to be blind, like 3 of the noms where for videos that had been out for quite (more than 2 months) a while (I say that because bakka and I counted about 20 videos that had been premired and shown at cons already, so i'm fairly sure those who can't vote, don't know who they are) and a few of them flat out did not deserve what they got (across the board).


*snip*

I just wish AWA would make a full Blind rule instead of having an "unspoken" rule about it. Because that really takes alot of the fun out of it... ALOT.


My, but I'm in a contentious mood these days. Oh, well.

You've already answered your own 'question'- if it not being completely, I-have-no-frelling-idea-who-made-what blind took that much of the fun out of it, don't enter. As has already been pointed out, there is a contest where videos have to be as absolutely blind as is possible by having never been premiered or ideally seen before by anyone- AWA Masters. Pro is intended to be a less stringent competition, and as I've said before- it's expected that you'll be as professional as possible and judge videos on the merits of their editing and content, not by who made them or whether you know who made them.

I'm obviously going to take the stance that knowing who made a video isn't going to ruin the contest- most people in the contest likely knew exactly which one was mine because I rolled my Otakon entry over into Pro. But honestly, it didn't bother me at all last year when I had entered a new video into Pro and saw a number of other videos that I'd seen before. Pro is easily one of my favorite contests of the year- watching through the videos, especially with a group of fellow editor friends like I did this year, is a whole lot of fun, as is the speculation as to who made what and the thrill that is being part of deciding the finalists and winners. I wholly expected to- and was not disappointed in that- to not make the finals this year- and frankly I didn't care. It's being a part of the contest and the fun of it that counts to me. I'll be generous apologize if your enjoyment of the contest was that lessened by there being videos that you either knew who made or had seen before in the contest, but quite honestly I think that if you're getting that bent out of shape about something like that, you're taking things way too seriously. If you want to be part of a truly blind contest that much- enter Masters.
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Postby Scintilla » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:15 am

The problem, of course, being that to get into Masters requires that you have won something at some other convention contest first... Also, isn't it very strongly recommended that you actually show up at AWA for that one?
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Postby Ashyukun » Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:52 am

Scintilla wrote:The problem, of course, being that to get into Masters requires that you have won something at some other convention contest first... Also, isn't it very strongly recommended that you actually show up at AWA for that one?


This is true- Masters does have an entry requirement that Pro doesn't- I wasn't taking that into consideration. If enough people thought that there should be more stringent rules for the 'blinding' of entries into Pro, than perhaps Wagner & the AWA staffers would change them. But, by and large, I don't see massive public outcry over the current setup. Most people I know (most, not all) very much enjoy the contest as it is, and I see no real driving need for it to change. Personally, I see people lobbying their friends to vote for them in return for a mutual vote as being far more of a detraction from the contest than potentially knowing who made what.

And being present at AWA if you enter Masters is highly recommended, but then if you might get an award it's generally recommended that you attend any convention you submit to if you can. Masters is just a bit more 'personalized' of an award, being a custom-fitted sport coat.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Wed Sep 15, 2004 1:41 pm

Interesting enough, it seems there are a lot of trends happening in the AMV community.

For one contests are now an every day reality and lets face it, a lot of editors gear themselves around deadlines. How many times do I see the statement; “I got to get this done before the ____ contest deadline… The question really comes down to what a contest means to each of us. Is it a test of what we can do as compared to others? Is it a way of gaining popularity?

The biggest issue I find with humans is that they seem to think that if you win a lot or happen to be popular with fellow fans and collogues, that you are better or "much" more talented.. Frankly this is far from the truth and the two have nothing to do with each other in most cases... Translated directly, being nominated or winning lots of contests does not make you more popular, nor does it mean your better, nor does it give you a higher status. So why all the issues that surround it?

I think we've turned contests in some extent onto "industry" meters of success. As human beings, we all want to be successful at some point so that translates into the urge to win and get a pat on the back from our peers. Now I'm sure that in some extent we all feel that urge (and anyone who disagrees is truly lying or is not human). The trick is not to let it consume us as it has a lot of editors....

So in the end, it's only a contest, it really does not mean anything in the big picture nor should it as long as we enjoy doing this "HOBBY" and not get consumed by it or start applying too much morality and methodology into it (it will always be flawed in the eyes of others in one way or another).

I say put the damn Pro DVDs into your player, watch the videos, have just have fun! Since we all are watching then and thus every video has a built in audiance, we are all winners.... :wink:

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Postby Rozard » Wed Sep 15, 2004 2:08 pm

Voices_Of_Ryan wrote:To be completely honest... I thought the entire contest was a washout, and blah blah blah yakkity smackity.

That's a load of bull.
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Postby norskotaku » Wed Sep 15, 2004 3:40 pm

Vlad, I would be interested to know what the community was like prior to there being so many contests. the growing trend of the amv community revolving around contests is not surprising, but I think it has to do with more than just the desire to win.

I first discovered amvs when I saw the winners of a contest at afo a couple years back, and I continue to find new amvs at every con I go to. I don't think I'm alone in that way, and I'm sure there are a lot of people whose initial view of amvs started with a contest. thus, it only makes sense that when these people become editors themselves, the first thing on their mind is "what contest can I send this to?"

perhaps the abundance of contests is starting to taint the art form, but it is also allowing this community to grow at the same time, encouraging new editors to take up this hobby one after another. in my own personal experience, I met two of my best friends because of an amv one of them submitted to a con. I might not have thought to look for that amv online or wonder about the person who made it had it not been in the contest, and I know from talking to her that she made that amv specifically for the contest because she knew she was going to be there. funny how things work out that way.
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Postby SSJVegita0609 » Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:01 pm

OMG cons r for lamerz...

Jeebus, lighten up folks. :roll:
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Re: AWA Pro - It's a shutout

Postby Machine » Wed Sep 15, 2004 5:04 pm

Brakus wrote:To be an effective AMV creator and competitor, you have to know how to use AfterEffects. The top 4 nominated videos all use AfterEffects to some degree.

My peers seem to have lumped me in with the other AMV creators that shouldn't have been in the Pro contest but entered anyway. It seems I got passed over for other crappy videos that somehow made the final cut. I followed the rules, used quality source footage, and made a great entry to me... and I still feel like a total loser.

What good is making AMVs for yourself when you don't even make the final cut for a contest? My entry at Katsucon didn't make the final cut, and now my entry for AWA Pro didn't make the final cut either. If it really isn't about the prizes or recognition, then why do I still feel crappy about not being in the final list of candidates for the categories?

I wonder if any of you out there can give encouragement for those of us that didn't make the final nominations lists for AWA Pro... things that happen like this really tend to discourage me from making more AMVs.... how can I keep myself motivated to making AMVs and competing on the same level as the heavy-hitting power-editors?




This is why I don't vote or participate in AWA Pro anymore :?
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