Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the following...

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Postby the Black Monarch » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:47 am

Oh, and:

Kaji smuggled Adam to Japan FROM GERMANY. Ergo, Adam was in Germany prior to episode 8, and had probably been there for a long-ass time.

This means that, since Adam (Giant of Light) was in Antarctica during Second Impact, it had to be retrieved from Antarctica by SEELE/GEHIRN after Second Impact happened.
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Postby Cyanna » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:14 am

the Black Monarch wrote:
Vlad86 wrote:
About the Rei thing.....there is definatley at least 3 Reis (or more preceisly, 3 Rei bodies..) I distinctly remember seeingin an ep, during the half time thing, that it said Rei III.


Original Japanese episode title. It's the third episode that's about Rei. Go figure.

Don't forget that Rei herself says she is the third....

Cyanna wrote:Rei, who was created and has no biological mother


Ritsuko says Rei was born. Being born kind of requires a mother.

Shinji had no idea Rei was a clone when Ritsuko said that. Take things in the context in which it was said. Do you think Ritsuko would really reveal what Rei was until the oppertune moment? That has nothing to do with the series but how it was scripted. Think like the writer's and cut them some slack. That would spoil a major spoiler.

Tab. wrote: Also, it is said that every single bit of life, down to the molecular level, was destroyed in SI.


Actually, no, that was never said. And even if it was said, it can't be true, because young Ms. Katsuragi survived.

That is speculation. Misato survived only because her father made it so. He wasn't destroyed at the molecular level when he did so obviously. But we have no idea what happened to them after she started drifting in the ocean.

Kracus wrote:Also I don't think Rei merging with Lillith is what caused the 3I, I think it was also the combination of her pulling Adam into herself before doing it. Remember Gendo shoving his hand into her heart, same hand that had Adam in it.


It also seemed to require The Mass-Produced Evas, the Lance of Longinus, the imitation Lances, and a number of very painful things being done to Unit 01 by the Mass-Produced Evas with the imitation Lances.

The mass prods and Unit 01 could have started 3I on their own as SEELE originally intended. What went on between Gendo and Rei was Gendo's own design....and even then, Rei surprised Gendo...so no one knew what the heck was really going on as far as Lilith was concerned.

AtomicWeezleman wrote:its stated that Unit 01 is diferent tto 00 and 02, in the fact that it was made of lilith (somewhere in eva.......)


Actually, no, that was also never stated... put down the crack pipe dude...

Didn't you read what I quoted a few posts back? For someone who is so picky about the writer's choice of words used to build up suspense for spoilers, you certainly like to disregard quotes actually used to reveal spoilers.
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Postby Kracus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:53 am

I'm amazed at how adament Milo has been about (at least 02) not being made from adam, since Kaworu said it was.

And the 7 eyes thing, come on, not only is 7 on it own an important number throughout the bible, 7 eyes is referenced in different places that have nothing to do with Lilith or a woman. (Zechariah 3:9)

Black Monarch:
yea a bunch of other things that had to be done. However, it's noted in End of Eva for instrumentality to begin they had to 'lure' out the catalyst. Rei responded when Shinji lost it.

Since yer so picky you forgot to mention that it also required Eva 01 to take on the s2 engines as well. :roll: it required Shinji to be born, it required Gendo to be born, it required Asuka to be born, it required Rei to be blown up, it required Akagi to kill herself and so on forever. :roll:
I was just questioning, adam being taken into Rei and then into lilith.

Also, I'd like detailed reference points from episodes to see this. But it is noted that in this thread that there is something in 00. you say it's not mother Akagi, yet you believe Asuka's mom is in 02 using this very simple logic (Body + soul = sane person
Body - soul = insane person
Get it? )

Yet you don't believe mother akagi is in 00 because she killed herself by jumping to her doom. Something most sane people don't do either.

Born = created, created = born, created != mother. come on, we are getting into an age were we just need an egg and sperm. (dictionary points to bear which is - 2 a : to give birth to b : to produce as yield c (1) : to permit growth of (2), mother is not mentioned, however permit growth of is)
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Postby Kracus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:55 am

Kracus wrote:Yet you don't believe mother akagi is in 00 but she killed herself by jumping to her doom. Something most sane people don't do either.
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Re: Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the followin

Postby Kracus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:02 am

the Black Monarch wrote:
Misato: So, this is the source of the dummy plugs?
Ritsuko: I will show you the truth
*she pushes the pretty button to reveal lots of clones of Rei*
Shinji: Ayanami Rei!
Misato: You're not saying the Evas' dummy plugs are...
Ritsuko: That's right, the part that becomes the core of the dummy system, and this is the manufacturing plant for it.
Misato: This is?
Ritsuko: These are just dummies. And nothing more than parts for Rei.


There are many version of the dialogue, it would be best to get the exact japanese wording and translate it yourself.

Here's another version ( a bit different ):
Shinji: Ayanami Rei!
Misato: Can it be? Eva's dummy plug is---
Ritsuko: This is the production factory of the core for the dummy plug system.
Misato: This is---?
Ritsuko: These are dummies. They are only parts for Rei. Men found God and so they tried to get him in their hands. That's why they were punished. That was 15 years ago. The god they discovered disappeared with them. But this time they tried to bring him back. That was Adam. And from Adam, humans were created as an imitation of God. That is Eva.
Shinji: Human, they are human?
Ritsuko: yes, they are human. Eva doesn't originally have a soul but they were given a human soul. All were salvaged. Rei is the only one with a soul. She is the only one that grew a soul. These empty parts of Rei do not contain any soul. They are just empty parts. That's why I'm going to destroy it. They are horrible.
*Ritsuko pushes termination button*
*Misato shocked, points gun at Ritsuko*
Misato: Do you knw what you're doing!?
Ritsuko: I know. Yes, I know. Destruction. Its not human. Its just something shaped like a human.

*stepping off of the platform in front of Eva 02*
Kaoru: Now let us go, clone of Adam and Lilin's servant.

*later talking to himself and shinji as Eva 02 and shinji fight*
Kaoru: Eva series, born of Adam, but are of a loathsome existence to humans. I don't understand why Lilin's take advantage of that to stay alive.
Shinji: Kaoru! Stop! Why are you doing this
Kaoru: Eva is made of the same body as I. I am born of Adam too.
I could become one with it, if I didn't have a soul. In fact, the soul of Unit-02 is locked. So I can control it. (this is why Rei can control 00 and 01 cause she is made of lilith, therefore she can control lilith's clones. Rei is an angel as noted after this talk when Kaoru enters Lilith's room and they detect another Angel and there is Rei.)

*Kaoru reaches Lilith*
Kaoru: Adam. Our mother being. Those who ae born out of Adam, must return to Adam? Even if destroying the people? No. This is Lilith! So, that's what it means, Lilin!
*a successful Shinji arrives*
Kaoru: Arigotou, shinji. I wanted you to stop Unit-02. If you hadn't, I might have lived with her.
Shinji: Kaoru, why?
Kaoru: Because my destiny is to live on even if the human race is gone. I can choose to die too. To me life and death have the same value. Death is the sole freedom.
Shinji: What? Kaoru, what are you saying? *more babble by shinji*
Kaoru: It's my will. Extinguish me---if you don't you will all be extinguished. Only one life can be the chosen one to avoide the end and bring the future. Your existence should not end.
*kaoru looks up at rei and then smiles* the future is necessary to you all. Thank you, I am happy to have met you.
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Re: Evangelion Episode 23 Director's Cut proves the followin

Postby Kracus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:17 am

Kracus wrote:Ritsuko: These are dummies. They are only parts for Rei. Men found God and so they tried to get him in their hands. That's why they were punished. That was 15 years ago. The god they discovered disappeared with them. But this time they tried to bring him back. That was Adam. And from Adam, humans were created as an imitation of God. That is Eva.


hmm, what if at the test site in Antartica they found Adam somewhat like Lilith is in the series and they did experiments and caused a similar instrumentality, that brought forth a being of light that destroyed them. The same thing happens again, but this time its lilith and instead of destroying, a recreation process happens.

Technically, Adam is not a being of light. That is not a distinction given to him. Lilith is pale and lights up as well. Eva 00/Rei lit up right before she blew. This (Monarch) could help your case for only one rei. Rei is an angel. Say the dna that mixed with Adam caused him to start moving and he light up and then blew leaving, after which only leaving what we seein the show (the suit case). They don't try to activate adam anymore but just clone him. So when Eva 00/Rei lights up and reforms before she blows, maybe there is something left of her. Mother Akagi didn't blow chibi Rei up, just choked her to death. So there are still remains.
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Postby Tab. » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:32 am

the Black Monarch wrote:
Tab. wrote: Also, it is said that every single bit of life, down to the molecular level, was destroyed in SI.


Actually, no, that was never said. And even if it was said, it can't be true, because young Ms. Katsuragi survived.


Put down the crack pipe and watch the series again, because it was a direct quote.
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Postby Kracus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:00 pm

Tab. wrote:
the Black Monarch wrote:
Tab. wrote: Also, it is said that every single bit of life, down to the molecular level, was destroyed in SI.


Actually, no, that was never said. And even if it was said, it can't be true, because young Ms. Katsuragi survived.


Put down the crack pipe and watch the series again, because it was a direct quote.


Even if its a direct quote, the series shows Misato being put in a capsule and the father dying over it. After the aftermath, she is seen floating in that capsule at sea.
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Postby Cyanna » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:01 pm

3I has not ended at that point though. Misato can still see the lights as she floats away. We have no idea what happened after she left.
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Postby Cyanna » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:03 pm

Cyanna wrote:3I has not ended at that point though. Misato can still see the lights as she floats away. We have no idea what happened after she left.


2I I mean.
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Postby Kracus » Tue Feb 17, 2004 1:22 pm

Cyanna wrote:3I has not ended at that point though. Misato can still see the lights as she floats away. We have no idea what happened after she left.


That's true, I pointed it out just because she was obviously on solid land and something had to be destroyed for her to then be out on the ocean.

I would like to find the quote about everything being destroyed and who says it. Cause it could be a point of a government coverup. Something could have survived, that being Adam in the state we see him in.
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Postby Tab. » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:09 pm

Well it's not likely that he exploded and as a result of the explosion shrunk to an embryo. Simple logic and blatant statements from the series say that when the DNA extraction and data collection was sufficient, Gendo's team left the Katsuragi research team to be blown to hell.
Remember that the government story was a meteor, which would not have included destroying all life to the molecular level. Quite the opposite, actually. It was an observation of Fuyutsuki, who was adamantly opposed to the secrecy and coverups surrounding the incident. I believe the specific statement was made during his trip with Gendo to the Antarctic. During the "this place used to be a continent" discussion. May have been DC only.

Also, it can be assumed that Lillith was inside the geofront when it was discovered. In retrospect, I believe the geofront was excavated after 2000, so the argument about Adam preceding Lillith would be accurate.
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Postby the Black Monarch » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:24 pm

Cyanna wrote:Don't forget that Rei herself says she is the third....


Actually, the line is more like "I think I might be the third one"

It reminds me of Zack's line from the old Carmen San Diego cartoon, "I'm beginning to think you're almost as smart as everyone says you think you are"

Cyanna wrote:Shinji had no idea Rei was a clone when Ritsuko said that. Take things in the context in which it was said. Do you think Ritsuko would really reveal what Rei was until the oppertune moment?... That would spoil a major spoiler.


Regardless, Ritsuko said Rei was born. This is no game of semantics; the choice of words was completely incompatible with "pulled out of a tank of LCL".

Cyanna wrote:That is speculation. Misato survived only because her father made it so. He wasn't destroyed at the molecular level when he did so obviously. But we have no idea what happened to them after she started drifting in the ocean.


Regardless, Second Impact did not vaporize every living thing on the continent.

Cyanna wrote:Didn't you read what I quoted a few posts back? For someone who is so picky about the writer's choice of words used to build up suspense for spoilers, you certainly like to disregard quotes actually used to reveal spoilers.


Okay, but that doesn't change the fact that no one ever says Unit 01 was made from Lillith.

Kracus wrote:Yet you don't believe mother akagi is in 00 because she killed herself by jumping to her doom. Something most sane people don't do either.


Most sane people also don't get to high-five Mike Shinoda, but just because I did it doesn't mean I'm insane. The elder Dr. Akagi was sane when she jumped. A little unstable, but not completely out of touch with reality like Asuka's mom.

Kracus wrote:Born = created


That is where your logic begins to fail. Born != created.

Kracus wrote:There are many version of the dialogue, it would be best to get the exact japanese wording and translate it yourself.

Here's another version ( a bit different ):


I use the Director's Cut translations, which are based on the Literal Translation Project, widely considered to be the most accurate translations available.

Kracus wrote: hmm, what if at the test site in Antartica they found Adam somewhat like Lilith is in the series and they did experiments and caused a similar instrumentality, that brought forth a being of light that destroyed them. The same thing happens again, but this time its lilith and instead of destroying, a recreation process happens... Technically, Adam is not a being of light. That is not a distinction given to him.


Gendo explicitly states in episode 21 that the Giant of Light IS Adam. It's when he's bringing Fuyutsuki on board.

Kracus wrote:So when Eva 00/Rei lights up and reforms before she blows, maybe there is something left of her.


There is definitely something left of her - we see a dark, fuzzy close-up of her arm in Unit 00's entry plug when Akagi Jr. goes to "rescue" her (translation: rescue the plug, destroy the survivor)

Kracus wrote:Mother Akagi didn't blow chibi Rei up, just choked her to death.


Choked her, but not to death. When deprived of oxygen, you lose consciousness a few minutes before you actually die. Naoko would have to keep the pressure on for a while after Rei went totally limp in order to kill her.

Tab. wrote:Put down the crack pipe and watch the series again, because it was a direct quote.


Episode, time, character, line.

Tab. wrote: Well it's not likely that he exploded and as a result of the explosion shrunk to an embryo.


Why the hell not? They were doing all sorts of ungodly things to him... who's to say one such experiment wouldn't cause him to revert to embryonic form, with the excess mass being converted into energy? BIG BOOM!

Tab. wrote:Simple logic and blatant statements from the series say that when the DNA extraction and data collection was sufficient, Gendo's team left the Katsuragi research team to be blown to hell.


That much is actually true.
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Postby Tab. » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:19 pm

Well skipping through I managed to find "It is an Eva, made from Adam by man." in episode 21 at 14:59 chapter 2 of the first Renewal DVD. The Evas were definitely produced from Adam and not Lillith, as Milo's been trying to argue. As for Eva 02, I'm not sure at the moment.

Here's the quote you've all been waiting for:
Episode 21, 12:14 into the 2nd chapter on the first Renewal DVD. Fuyutsuki speaking internally.
Dub:
"The entire area's been affected. Altered atmospheric composition, the complete extermination of all life forms down to the microorganic level, traces of an enormous cavern directly below the blast center, and then there's this giant of light... This whole incident is mysterious."

Sub:
"We can't conclude our findings for our investigation lightly either. A completely localized change to the atmospheric elements. The thorough extermination of all life, including microorganisms. The traces of an enormous cavern directly below the blast center. And this giant of light. This incident is full of mysteries."
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Postby Tab. » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:21 pm

Tab. wrote:Renewal


Director's Cut* -_-
I only wish.
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