Sakura Con...a bust...

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Sakura Con...a bust...

Postby Zerophite » Sun Apr 06, 2003 8:56 pm

The AMV contest was disappointing, the con was very uptight, programming was really bad.

I'll post a field report tonight or tomorrow...I just left the con very disappointed in how it was ran.
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asynchronous matter avoided by a diagram invisibility
subtle methods symmetry uncovered a diagonal telemetry"
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:05 pm

Hmmm...Too bad.. So what made the AMV contest so disappointing... What it the entries or something else?

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Postby Castor Troy » Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:28 pm

How sad... after I heard last year's Sakura con went really well.

I didn't have anything to enter this year.
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Postby The Wired Knight » Sun Apr 06, 2003 9:58 pm

A friend of mine who attends Sakura con never really enjoyed it, he says it was too small. It's sad that it has gone down hill though either way. I am not really sure what to say since I haven't attended Sakura con myself but from what I've heard it wasn't much to begin with.
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Postby Zerophite » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:02 pm

Vlad G Pohnert wrote:Hmmm...Too bad.. So what made the AMV contest so disappointing... What it the entries or something else?

Vlad


Well, the AMV contest was ticketed, which isn't a bad thing, I actually liked that better, so I didn't have to stand in line for an hour and a half before to get a good seat.

I don't know how Chris Arneson did this, but apparently the videos were ran through a panel of judges in order to be in the contest. Maybe it's me, but every video was the same. There were no videos that really stood out in action, in Drama, there were two, yours and Nicole's. But, both were beaten out by a Linkin Park "Crawling" to Escaflowne video...which, no offense to the creator, really pissed me off. Anyway, that's a different topic entirely.

When you went into the contest room, you were seated, and on the seat was a tiny, 3x4 inch piece of paper that had four categories on it (which were Action, Drama, Comedy, Orginal Animation). So I sat next to Furry Curry, NME, and Wuwu (now known as "That kind of Asian Guy). We all wondered how we were suppose to actually vote, since we weren't supplied a pen or pencil.

Supposidly it started out with Action, and some of those action videos should have been in Drama, unless action means "violence violence violence!!". There were no breaks between categories, so we all had no idea what was going on besides the fact that we were watching AMVs. In the end, he did a 10 second recap of each video, with a number which explained the balot.

There were technical difficulties, which can be expected, and didn't bother me. What bothered me was the quality of the sound and video. Being that only VHS and DVD-R were accepted, and not everyone has the money to spend on a DVD burner, the quality of the video was shot from a 10 to a 4 instantly, and the sound seemed as if it were ran through a cardboard tube (which PA was selling in the dealer room for 3 bucks *L*).

The opening intro was Mission Improbable with the bumper and credits cut out. NME told me that wasn't even submitted or allowed. I don't know how to go about that, but he seemed really pissed off because Chris went and edited it without permission.
"axis discrepancy indicates hexagons beyond control anomaly
mutilation colony reflects no triangular energy
asynchronous matter avoided by a diagram invisibility
subtle methods symmetry uncovered a diagonal telemetry"
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Postby Zerophite » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:09 pm

The Wired Knight wrote:A friend of mine who attends Sakura con never really enjoyed it, he says it was too small. It's sad that it has gone down hill though either way. I am not really sure what to say since I haven't attended Sakura con myself but from what I've heard it wasn't much to begin with.


SC has been great for the past 2 years I've attended. This year the staff was rude, everyone was uptight. The rules were extremely binding for being in the hall or just walking around. The Vice Chairmen seemed to be like the evil overlord wandering around, watching everyone. Everyone was just plain stuck up. The only thing I enjoyed was meeting up with friends and AMV buddies, buying stuff, and a couple of other things.

As for the AMV social...well...that's a funny story.

Furry Curry, NME, Wuwu, BigShotSpike and I were waiting for Columbia B to open up. We expected to see Chris in there (becuase he was the leader of what should have been going on in there, so said the schedulers upfront, and the schedule itself), but he never showed up...So FC and I took our laptops upfront, and formed a quasi panel :) that was memorable...

....stupid Knives video...I hate all 4 of you :lol:
"axis discrepancy indicates hexagons beyond control anomaly
mutilation colony reflects no triangular energy
asynchronous matter avoided by a diagram invisibility
subtle methods symmetry uncovered a diagonal telemetry"
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Postby You choose Sam,the rest » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:25 pm

1 - I have a new name. Its "kinda asian looking guy"

2 - Coplayers are cool to talk too.

3 - Zero has a cool knifes video. EVERYONE MUST GET IT SOMEHOW!

4 - Zero also looks like Edward Nortan.
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Postby Hakura » Sun Apr 06, 2003 11:51 pm

I've been hearing about how bad it was all night, makes me glad I didn't go ^^

Oh well there is Anime North next month, and I have never been let down before :)
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Postby Summanaro » Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:04 am

I missed teh amv, but saw the cosplay contest, it would've been good if they would've had proper seating and proper lighting.. not to mention all them technical difficulties.. but it was all fun none of the less..
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Postby RichLather » Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:17 am

Wondering if my Blue Gender/"The Defense" video made the cut... I'd sure hate to be beat out by a "Crawling" AMV, though.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:08 am

RichLather wrote:Wondering if my Blue Gender/"The Defense" video made the cut... I'd sure hate to be beat out by a "Crawling" AMV, though.


Yea..I know what you mean...But the people have spoken and the song seems to be popular.... Hence why I have both judged best of show and balloted best of show for the AMVs I'm running.....

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Postby TaranT » Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:31 am

I thought the contest was pretty good. Better than any of the previous years', although last year's wasn't bad either, as long as you weren't sitting in the back of the room.

The important thing is that the audience had a good time. And everything I saw and heard says that was the case. The MI:1 video was a great way to kick things off. Maybe Chris should have gotten approval, but, hey, people have used my vids without asking and that's ok with me.

I can't comment on audio quality. I was sitting 10 feet in front of a cluster of speakers so I wasn't in a position to judge. It was loud :shock: I know that much. The room was large, but not a true theater. I wouldn't be surprised if certain seating areas had poor sound. The muzak wasn't a problem either as far as I could tell, at least not when a video was playing. (The hotel's elevator music started playing through the room's built-in speakers about an hour into the contest.)

As for video, there were two problems that I would trace to equipment. One was brightness which is always a problem with these small projectors beaming on a large screen. Any dark scenes were washed almost to black (e.g. Jin-Roh). This might be something for creators to keep in mind when rendering videos for public exhibition.

The other was the slow frame rate...if that's what it was. It was especially noticeable on vertical panning scenes which are problems even in the best of circumstances. The video in these scenes stepped at what seemed like 4-5 frames per second (not literally; this is a judgement call). The Rayearth vid is where I noticed it first since it had several vertical pan scenes. But then I started seeing it in all the vids. Even the timing in my own entry felt wrong more than it looked wrong.

Maybe Chris could enlighten us about the projection equipment. What it seemed like - and I don't know that this is the case - is when a marginal PC is trying to play back a DVD with DMA not activated for the drive.

The other video problem was due to source material. It was obvious which entries were submitted on VCD or VHS. I don't think there is any way to project these to a 20' screen and have it look good. I know mine looked ok (I submitted on DV tape). I think Vlad submits DV, too; his looked fine as well. And I have no idea what happened to Tom the Fish's entry. It was the one that locked up a few times with color bars at the top of the screen. That was just weird.

Other things...I noticed the lack of pencils right away. But the ballot boxes were full so I suppose people managed. I was carrying a pen...but no paper to take notes :roll:. The comedy entries were a bright spot. And the original animations were done well (I would have sworn that BigBigTruck did "Sally", but I guess it was done by someone else.)

I will agree that the videos as a whole were not exactly thrilling. I get that feeling every contest I go to, especially in the action category. I suppose that should be expected. Most of the projects were just not connecting with the music. I don't know any better way to describe it than that. And I don't know how to do it consistently myself. It's like that guy once said about art: "I know it when I see it." And when I saw that Macross Plus video, I knew that person had nailed it. That one worked. Hakura's, also, was very close, a near miss.

In fact, I was sure that she or Vlad would take the drama category. Vlad's was probably the most technically perfect of all the entries, and the scene selection was perfection, too. But that song...it was like dragging a sawblade across my skull. Sorry, but it's not my type of music :).

Anyway, I haven't seen the results yet (missed the closing ceremonies). Chris said he would post them here. Until then...

*********
re: the convention as a whole, I won't comment. I drove down to the AMV contest, then on Saturday to see Fanboy Bebop and browse through the fanart room (some good work in there). I looked at the line into the dealer's room, turned around and went home. That was it. I needed the time to finish this new AMV for Anime North (deadline is Friday, for those who are interested).
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Mon Apr 07, 2003 1:40 am

TaranT wrote:In fact, I was sure that she or Vlad would take the drama category. Vlad's was probably the most technically perfect of all the entries, and the scene selection was perfection, too. But that song...it was like dragging a sawblade across my skull. Sorry, but it's not my type of music :).


Thanks for the praise.. Sorry about the sawblade though :wink:

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Postby E-Ko » Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:12 am

TaranT wrote:I thought the contest was pretty good. Better than any of the previous years'


I agree. From my standpoint, the venue and execution of the contest were superior to previous SC AMV contests. Being able to hold the contest in the main events room was a HUGE improvement. More people in audience = more energy. Raised screen = more people able to see the videos. Use of the main events room also shows that the contest is receiving the Major Event treatment it deserves.

As far as I can recall, very few technical glitches were encountered. I'm not an audio - video guru but aside from replaying the end of one of the entries, the only glitches I noticed were pauses between tapes switching.

I didn't have a watch but I'm pretty sure that the contest started and ended close to or at its scheduled times.

Other improvements over previous years:

1. Titles. For the first time at SC, studios and video titles were acknowledged on-screen.

2. 10 second recaps of each entry before voting.

After a bit of reflection, I can think of 2 nit-pick suggestions:

1. Categories, catagories, catagories... a familiar contest gripe. Intuitively, the contest was shown category by category, with "Action" appearing first, "Drama" second, "Comedy" third, and "Original Animations" last. However, category designations were not identified until the 10 second recap portion of the contest. Therefore, one couldn't accurately tell when the "Action" category ended and the "Drama" category began during main part of the contest. This is especially confusing for spectators who aren't familiar with the categories (browsing through the literature, I could find neither category designations nor descriptions in either the con book or the pocket programming guide). Category designations during the main part of the contest, perhaps?


2. Videos were assigned numbers. Voting was based on these numbers. Elegant and intuitive. However, without writing utensils for everyone, it was difficult to remember which video corresponded to which number. I had to ask around to make sure I was voting for the video I wanted to vote for.

MI1 went over extremely well. The barrages of applause were deafening. I'm impressed. Great job to all those involved.
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Postby CArnesen » Mon Apr 07, 2003 12:45 pm

Well, I'm glad that the majority enjoied the competion. I don't intend on using this as an excuse but this was the very first competition that I've done and there were a lot of problems, but there are a lot of solutions.

Before I address specific issues, I do want to apologize for not appropriately crediting the MI video. I was going to try to get into detail about how it was a large collabration and a huge success, but the executive staff was already getting on my case about it being too long. I've referred any questions about the MI video to the a-m-v.org website.

The second large issue was that I only received a total of 46 entries, and only 34 of them didn't have (many) technical issues that barred them from playing properly. This is why the contest seemed to go the way that it did. This was not the way I intended it to go, I was prepared for over 70 entries.

Now for the specific issues:

Zerophite wrote:When you went into the contest room, you were seated, and on the seat was a tiny, 3x4 inch piece of paper that had four categories on it (which were Action, Drama, Comedy, Orginal Animation). So I sat next to Furry Curry, NME, and Wuwu (now known as "That kind of Asian Guy). We all wondered how we were suppose to actually vote, since we weren't supplied a pen or pencil.


On Thursday, this is exactly what I was worried about. The con staff told me in February that we had a couple boxes of golf pencils... but that they didn't make it to the convention. On Friday morning, I had the newsletter staff put a message in regarding getting tickets and reminding attendants to bring a pen or pencil.

Next year, I will be personally purchasing pens for usage during the contest (hopefully some nice limited edition Sakura-Con 2004 pens...).

Zerophite wrote:Supposidly it started out with Action, and some of those action videos should have been in Drama, unless action means "violence violence violence!!". There were no breaks between categories, so we all had no idea what was going on besides the fact that we were watching AMVs. In the end, he did a 10 second recap of each video, with a number which explained the balot.


Again, time restraints definitely affected this portion too. I am seriously concidering next year only allowing 8 videos per category to compete, and putting in breaker footage between sections.

Zerophite wrote:There were technical difficulties, which can be expected, and didn't bother me. What bothered me was the quality of the sound and video. Being that only VHS and DVD-R were accepted, and not everyone has the money to spend on a DVD burner, the quality of the video was shot from a 10 to a 4 instantly, and the sound seemed as if it were ran through a cardboard tube (which PA was selling in the dealer room for 3 bucks *L*).


You don't know about half of the technical problems. Though I did accept VCD, S-VCD, VHS, S-VHS, MiniDV, DV, DVCam, DVD-R(W), most of the entries actually didn't look very good because of how they were ORIGINALLY edited. There were a couple of VCD entries that were incredibly awesome and you could tell that time was taken to encode them, but I got others that looked horrible, and I looked at a frame by frame on them and found that the problem was actually the source footage, not MPEG compression...

I thought that the types of speakers and the setup wasn't appropriate for the type of event, if you were in the front row, you went deaf.

Zerophite wrote:The opening intro was Mission Improbable with the bumper and credits cut out. NME told me that wasn't even submitted or allowed. I don't know how to go about that, but he seemed really pissed off because Chris went and edited it without permission.


First, I consulted a few people on this and the majority agreed that I wouldn't be able to get all the creators of this project together to give permission to show this, but in past discussions on this forum the general feeling was that as long as someone else didn't try taking credit for it, that it would be fine to show at cons. As for the credits and such, my intent was to speak about the video prior to showing it, but due to time constraints it wasn't. But be sure to check out the final results list for the appropriate credit (currently open in another browser window...)

Zerophite wrote:As for the AMV social...well...that's a funny story.

Furry Curry, NME, Wuwu, BigShotSpike and I were waiting for Columbia B to open up. We expected to see Chris in there (becuase he was the leader of what should have been going on in there, so said the schedulers upfront, and the schedule itself), but he never showed up...So FC and I took our laptops upfront, and formed a quasi panel :) that was memorable...


That's funny, because I never scheduled an AMV Social and didn't know that I needed to be there... Hmm, I'll have to talk with the panels coordinator...

TaranT wrote:Maybe Chris could enlighten us about the projection equipment. What it seemed like - and I don't know that this is the case - is when a marginal PC is trying to play back a DVD with DMA not activated for the drive.


Certainly! Well, I know that the projector they rented was about $5,000 for the weekend, they were using a professional Panasonic video switcher (I know that it retails for about $2,500), and the program tape was supposed to be the master S-VHS copy that I had, but on Thursday they asked if I had it on DV, I told them that I had the four master MiniDV tapes on me, but that I didn't have one long compliation DV tape. The technical staff insisted that they use the MiniDV tapes and I gave it to them.

I also gave them the S-VHS tape and it was a good thing, because even through it wasn't noticed, one of the DV tapes quit working right after a video, we were able to switch to the next DV tape right away, and then played a video, and then switched back to the S-VHS copy for the missing videos, then contined with the DV tapes. I always believe in a backup!

The framerate issues were because of the actual entries, not because of any equipment problems.

TaranT wrote:And I have no idea what happened to Tom the Fish's entry. It was the one that locked up a few times with color bars at the top of the screen. That was just weird.


Hmm, I just checked the master and I didn't see anything like that... It was probably because of the high "white" level in FLCL, it probably overdrove the projector. Unfortunitely I don't have a waveform monitor and vectorscope to find out for sure...

Weibelius wrote:1. Categories, catagories, catagories... a familiar contest gripe. Intuitively, the contest was shown category by category, with "Action" appearing first, "Drama" second, "Comedy" third, and "Original Animations" last. However, category designations were not identified until the 10 second recap portion of the contest. Therefore, one couldn't accurately tell when the "Action" category ended and the "Drama" category began during main part of the contest. This is especially confusing for spectators who aren't familiar with the categories (browsing through the literature, I could find neither category designations nor descriptions in either the con book or the pocket programming guide). Category designations during the main part of the contest, perhaps?


2. Videos were assigned numbers. Voting was based on these numbers. Elegant and intuitive. However, without writing utensils for everyone, it was difficult to remember which video corresponded to which number. I had to ask around to make sure I was voting for the video I wanted to vote for.


Thank you for the constructive criticism, number 1 was the largest issue this year. Though I am glad that I didn't end up labling the categories because of the major videotape issue because it actually broke up a category. Next year I plan on solving this by individually placing a lower third on each entry with the Studio, Title, Anime, Song, and Category with its entry number.

Regarding number 2, I've just put a couple of large stars next to my "Bring Pencils" entry on the "To-Do for 2004" list...

In summary, I just want to say that with all of the questions and comments that were asked and given in the last year I will be able to individually tackle each one to make the Sakura-Con 2004 contest one of the best AMV contests.

Probably one of the hardest things during the last year was getting input on how to operate the contest. Now that it is over and people have experienced it, I'm getting more comments than ever. I expect to be officially reappointed as the contest coordinator in May or early June, hopefully by then the official rules and entry information will be available. The largest change is that I am opening up entries to now include Digital Entries and that the submission process will be entirely online, don't worry through, hard medium formats will still be accepted through the mail.

Thanks again!
--Chris ^_^
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