When will DVD's be improved upon?

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When will DVD's be improved upon?

Postby CaTaClYsM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:14 pm

I want to know DVD players are getting better and better, they are making them MPEG 2 compatable, and some to work with MPEG 4. but what good is that going to do if DVD's arent made in MPEG 2 or 4?
are there ever going to be DVD's encoded in MPEG 2 or 4? if there are then where can I find them? because I would sure as hell like to see some anime DVD's encoded in MPEG 2 or 4 as opposed to MPEG 1.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby jbone » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:18 pm

Uh... DVDs have always been encoded in MPEG-2 format. It's, like, the standard video format.

Sure, MPEG-1 can be used, but it rarely is.
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:24 pm

are you sure? because all of the DVD I own work, but whenever I try to make an SVCD. (which uses mpeg 2) it won't work? I know how to encode things correctly and I have made dozenz of VCD's. but all the SVCD's I make wont work on the DVD player in my living room. Oh, and if all DVDplayers are MPEG 2 compatable then why is it that in the manual that came with my other DVD player say that it can play SVCD's and is MPEG 2 compatable? If MPEG 2 were the norm then it should say that since ALL DVD PLAYERS USE IT! And logicaly if all DVD players use MPEG 2 video then they should all play SVCD's, but they don't.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:28 pm

They all don't play SVCDs because it has a different spec than DVDs.

Anyways, only thing I can think of is that you're not burning a compliant SVCD (480x480 and something like 2520 for bitrate)

MPEG-2 is a DVD. DVD uses something like an 8Mbit spec at 720x480 res.
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Postby jbone » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:41 pm

SVCD requires a high bitrate (relatively speaking) for a CD. Many DVD players don't support the reading of CDs at above the speed required for VCD or audio CD.

Alternately, many DVD players won't read CD-Rs. CD-RWs are much closer to the composition of DVDs, so if your player won't read a CD-R, you may try using a CD-RW.
"If someone feels the need to 'express' himself or herself with a huge graphical 'singature' that has nothing to do with anything, that person should reevaluate his or her reasons for needing said form of expression, possibly with the help of a licensed mental health practitioner."
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:48 pm

no it reads CDR's just fine as I said before,I've made lots of VCD's. all using CD-R's, btw, the bitrate of my vid was 600. so it has nothing to do with the bitrate, it couldn't do SVCD's.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:48 pm

There's your problem. SVCD uses like a 2520kbps bitrate. 600kbps isn't going to confine by the SVCD spec, therefore not play.
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:51 pm

well hot damn they are MPEG 2, so now I am back to figuring out why my DVD player refuses adamantly to do SVCD's, and why my other DVD players said that it could do MPEG 2 in the menu when it obdviously didn't need to say that.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:54 pm

NicholasDWolfwood wrote:There's your problem. SVCD uses like a 2520kbps bitrate. 600kbps isn't going to confine by the SVCD spec, therefore not play.

umm, SVCD's and XVCD's can have variable bitrates. I made and XVCD with a bitrate of 2300 in MPEG 1 that played just fine on the DVD player in my other room, but hte one in the LIVING ROOM crapped out.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby alternatefutures » Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:13 pm

For the broader question, when the market creates a demand for HD video media then the next generation of discs will begin to emerge.
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:19 pm

I wonder when that will be, because DVD's just don't cut it.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby NicholasDWolfwood » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:37 pm

CaTaClYsM wrote:
NicholasDWolfwood wrote:There's your problem. SVCD uses like a 2520kbps bitrate. 600kbps isn't going to confine by the SVCD spec, therefore not play.

umm, SVCD's and XVCD's can have variable bitrates. I made and XVCD with a bitrate of 2300 in MPEG 1 that played just fine on the DVD player in my other room, but hte one in the LIVING ROOM crapped out.


Umm...no. SVCDs have a bitrate of 2520kbps or somewhere around that. Dunno about XVCDs, as I've never used it before.
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Postby alternatefutures » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:43 pm

According to www.vcdhelp.com S and X VCDs have a maximum of 2500kps and, from what it looks like, can have a variable bitrate.
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Postby RadicalEd0 » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:46 pm

omfg guys please, this is pathetic. :?

The DVD specs include; VBR Mpeg2 and Mpeg1 from 0kbps to 9000kbps (total stream cannot exceed 9mbps) frame rates of 23.976 progressive and 29.97 interlaced, and resolutions of 720x480, 704x480, 352x480, and 352x240.
ALL commercial DVDs use VBR Mpeg2 at 720x480 and 99% of which are 29.97 interlaced.
SVCD specs include VBR Mpeg2 at 29.97fps and 480x480 res. Bitrate between 0 and 2600 kbps. Total stream cannot exceed 2756 kbps.
VCD spec includes CBR Mpeg1 at 29.97 or 23.976fps, 352x240 res and a fixed bitrate of 1150 kbps (video), 1374kbps total.

All DVD players support DVD (no shit). Most players support VCD. Many support SVCD. Few support miniDVD or DVD video authored on a CD.
What jbone mentioned about CD read speed is correct, a lot of players (especially older ones) don't read past 1x. Similarly, a lot of players will fudge up under 300kbps and a few don't read under 1150kbps. Either way there's no golden rule or logical application that says a DVD player should or shouldn't be able to play something. Different formats that share only the same codec have no guarantee of being cross compatible.
You can check from the compatibility list on www.vcdhelp.com to see if your player is supposed to support SVCD.

Also, no DVDs contain Mpeg4 video. It isn't part of the spec and couldnt be played in modern players.

As for HDDVD, we've got awhile to wait, but the format is probably going to be based on 20-25gb per layer 400nm lazer discs using 1920x1080i and 1280x720p high definition video at 30mbps. I'd like to say they're using mpeg-4 for this task, but it would take probably > 3 ghz processor to decode 1920x1080 mpeg4 and they're not going to be putting those in standalone players. Maybe by the time they actually get around to releasing the format that won't be so far fetched, but it isnt in the plans.
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Postby Zarxrax » Thu Jan 16, 2003 10:51 pm

I'd like to say they're using mpeg-4 for this task, but it would take probably > 3 ghz processor to decode 1920x1080 mpeg4 and they're not going to be putting those in standalone players. Maybe by the time they actually get around to releasing the format that won't be so far fetched, but it isnt in the plans.


Note that it takes more processing power on a PC to play back MPEG-2 than it does MPEG-4.
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