Is Technical issues outstripping Artistic issues?

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Postby Chaos Angel » Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:09 am

I don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been touched upon, as I am no wealth of information either technically or artistically, but I do want to say this.

Some videos that I really like have obviously sloppy compression, etc. But I like them because of the way they are put together. Technical aspects can, and should, be used to enhance the video and make the presentation of the work visually appealing. Technical aspects are secondary to artistic qualities when deciding whether or not I like a video.
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Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:55 am

trythil wrote:The feeling that I get from reading the previous posts in this thread is "technical issues don't matter as much as artistic issues". If I'm wrong, feel free to correct and/or flame me for it.

Anyway, what I am attempting to illustrate is that technical skill and artistic skill are strongly linked. If you have a low signal-to-noise ratio in your presentation, no message, no matter how profound or touching, will be communicated.

This is, I think, a major reason why technical merit has become so paramount lately. It is only in the recent past that the means to produce high-quality videos has been made available, and every reason exists to use the available resources for clearer communication.


Don't get me wrong; good quality is important thus the technical side should always be considered. The point I am making is that the trend seems to be that the technical side is taking precedence over the artistic side! In your images, quality is important, very true. But if the artistic concept is poor or not enough consideration is given to it, then the images not matter what the quality may not help the video at all. I agree with you that balance is important and why not use the tools when they are there, but you must use them in equilibrium with creativity.

I look at it like an artist. Yes, it's important to know the paint you use so that the art turns out right. But if you spend too much time analyzing the paint under a microscope, you'll not have proper time for the painting of the picture! So in the end, use what works and get you comfortable with the technical side (do some homework as they say), and then go ahead and actually paint the picture letting your artistic side free!! Only then can one achieve a true "balanced" work of art....

BTW, A funny thing about the comment of analog capturing from DVD. That's exacly what I did for one of my videos about 2 years ago and I got a lot of feedback on how good the DVD rips really were!! Just goes to show that not ripping DVD is the end of the world! It's acceptable quality for the video in the end that's important! (Yes, I rip all my footage nowadays excelpt for the use of Laser Disks (I have tons of those). I was just making a point of waht was siad in this thread...)

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Postby madmallard » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:13 pm

whats the saying. ..

Diamonds can be wrapped in paper, and gold can wrap trash?

techincal ability = quality of execution with relevance to artistic intent.

it does not equal quantity or diversity of execution.

Jeff, get in on this one. . .you didn't have a video effects board at first or anything did you? Yet the quality of'why me's' edits seem to keep it more interesting for me to watch than most new stuff.

other videos which used primarily straight cuts in a well executed way, like only in dreams, shows me more about technical ability than say. . .believe, or sleep now (either). No offense, as all three videos are nifty, but i can't use them as object lessons to make myself better either a) the editor had a very specific idea and knowledge of tools, or b) the impression wasn't as strong on me for whatever reason.

but then that would be trying to be everything to everyone. ;p

unfortunately, i agree with vlad that the new crowds that have gotten into amvs in the last 4 years or so are dominated with people who put bells and whistles high on their quality lists. I say this because i and my friends tastes while relatively similar in our circle, are wildly different from alot of the community. ..
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Postby monthenor » Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:39 pm

Dunno what I can add here, but I'd like to say that I've always felt effects should be left to professional rigs, and the harmony of the anime and music should come first. I've never used anything more complex than a cross-fade in my videos, but people seem to like them a lot. I'll never be a famous editor like Caldwell, and I'll never enter a contest, but I think my videos get the point across. People have to just be willing to watch the different vids for what they are rather than what the "state of the art" is.

It comes down to the originality score. If you try to push past the average video, whether in effects or intent, you'll get noticed.
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Postby the Black Monarch » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:31 pm

Koop and I are currently discussing this very topic in relation to his Damaged Rei-Mix video. I'll let you all know how it turns out.
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Postby CaTaClYsM » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:01 pm

Well I can't say it is easy to make a video when the source footage needs to be the quality of the original DVD.
So in other words, one part of the community is waging war on another part of the community because they take their community seriously enough to want to do so. Then they tell the powerless side to get over the loss cause it's just an online community. I'm glad people make so much sense." -- Tab
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Postby Mechaman » Sat Jan 11, 2003 12:57 am

when the source footage needs to be the quality of the original DVD.


When does it?
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Postby the Black Monarch » Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:10 am

The conclusion that I've reached is this: it is possible for technical coolness to become too much of a priority when it shouldn't.
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Postby Fluxmeister » Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:57 pm

I will admit that quality can make a big difference to me. It is fairly
important that a video look good or at least decent. As someone who
has cycled through some terrbile methods ... I can say I have learned a
lot and honestly believe it's been worth it.

(msvideo1->indeo->huffy->avs) :shock:
(oh and mpeg all the way... xvid/divx love to screw up my videos)

I think at the most base of this discussion... Vlad says it well. Remember
why you make videos (well whatever your reasons are)... and don't let
technical battles consume you... though I really love the LD vs. DVD... :?

Make the video so you wanna watch it. I don't think it gets any simpler.

Or if you are more of an award hound, make the video to manipulate
judges and the audience into loving your video. :roll:
I have sinned. I made a video I wanted to make that was music + anime + sync + action + effects/transitions. Oh lordy. :roll:
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Postby mexicanjunior » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:20 pm

Fluxmeister wrote:Or if you are more of an award hound, make the video to manipulate
judges and the audience into loving your video. :roll:


Will do cheif! :lol:
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Postby melezov » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:39 pm

I think that each and everyone of AMVs that didn't use DVDs as source should be trashed and forgotten.

It will be a noble and a worthy sacrifice since DBZ DVDs are hard to acquire.

Seriously though.. when was the last time you saw a 10/10 for video quality AMV whose overall sucked badly?

Interesting, eh? Becouse I can't recall any..
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Re: My Bits of Wisdom

Postby mexicanjunior » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:41 pm

melezov wrote:I think that each and everyone of AMVs that didn't use DVDs as source should be trashed and forgotten.


There goes all of mine. :cry:

*empties recycle bin*
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>:)

Postby melezov » Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:48 pm

j/k of course, MJ

Al of mine would go too, while we're at it
Outshined was compiled from lame SVCDs which I smoothened to infinity and beyond ^^
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Postby Flint the Dwarf » Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:38 pm

Well, when I started my first vid (and current :wink: ), I had bad quality footage. It later occurred to me that I might want to enter this at one of the cons I'm trying to attend. So I got a DVD-ROM drive and embarked on the most tedious and agonizing process in my entire life. I'm still replacing those clips, but that's the only reason. I just don't want it to look crappy so that I'm assured people will notice the artistic aspect. Some people are simply turned off by the image and then don't look for any meaning or plot.

And, also, I read the guides thoroughly and with much agonization. And I still couldn't do everything I needed to just in terms of creating avs and avi after ripping the vobs. Just all this technical mumbo jumbo has taken more time than my planning of the video. I still had to get help from Melezov and Chaos Angel up there. Now, everything is relatively simple and routine, but still agonizing and comparatively primitive. But nothing was more fun and addictive than just trying to be creative and artistic with my video.

So, in the end, for me it's artistic all the way. I'm simply not knowledgeable enough to create a visual and technical masterpiece. But I can still make good enough looking effects if I need to. :)
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Re: My Bits of Wisdom

Postby Vlad G Pohnert » Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:06 pm

melezov wrote:I think that each and everyone of AMVs that didn't use DVDs as source should be trashed and forgotten.

It will be a noble and a worthy sacrifice since DBZ DVDs are hard to acquire.

Seriously though.. when was the last time you saw a 10/10 for video quality AMV whose overall sucked badly?

Interesting, eh? Becouse I can't recall any..


Hmmm..Interesting. I guess we'll just have to toss some great videos done by the likes of Brad DeMoss, Lee Thompson, Kevin Caldwell and problably almost every other person on this list who's been making videos for the past 2+ years as well :wink:

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