AMV Viewpoint

[Ileia]

The types of AMVs that people want to see doesn't determine the type of AMVs people want to make. It's not supply and demand.

[slimed]

first, i think amvs are certainly an artistic medium. you're taking a source and cutting and rearranging and manipulating it to create something new, in addition to audio that probably isn't related to the original video source to begin with.

i know the kind of videos you're talking about. i don't know whether it's that the community isn't "ready" for them, because i've seen several come from this community that have received a lot of attention and praise. your own example for instance, whisper of the beast. another example would be scorpionultd's bebop/trigun crossover. another example that comes to mind is umika's metamorphose, which won best video at big contest 2012. these are obvious examples. i think the problem lies with that they are sometimes difficult or tedious to execute. these are just one sort of video, and i don't think a lack thereof is partly responsible for this hobby dying as you suggested. although, whether or not they're complicated to understand isn't important. if the other of these two types of viewers has to do with enjoying visuals and good editing, then a properly executed abstract storytelling video probably contains this and will be enjoyable for any type of viewer, even if the viewer doesn't understand the story or thought behind the video in the first place.

on the other hand, i can also enjoy an amv that isn't a reworking of the anime's original story. although that doesn't mean i like random videos (i sometimes do..). i like videos that portray a mood and not necessarily a story, but a theme/concept; whether this involves epitomizing the show's original storyline, or accentuating certain elements, or even approaching a video more figuratively. of course orchestrating stunning (appropriate) fx and "really great editing" into the mix can be/definitely is a plus, but i think that's more on the technical objective side of editing, and can work for either of the two "or"s being discussed and is beneficial to any video (more so the great editing over fx).

imo any video/idea can be enjoyable depending on the execution, and any video can end up shitty depending on the execution.

otherwise i agree with a lot that farmxd said. simple concepts can be very original, and it doesn't require reworking an anime's storyline. it just takes thinking outside of the box.
i think he meant something different by "be ready for the community." basically, does it really matter what any viewers' original connotations with any certain sort of editing are? whether they dislike abstract storytelling videos or not, or a random action video, or a unique concept you may have for that matter -- give the idea a shot and edit it the way you like and maybe it could be received differently than preconceived notions maybe suggest. and that's only if that matters to you in the first place. some people are content with editing only for themselves. i think either is okay

[AceD]

I like AMVs that are able to break the boundaries of their source and actually portray a whole story or concept without actually having anything to do with the anime at all, but rather uses the anime as a means of portraying that concept. For example, using "Anime A" as a source to portray a concept/idea/story; however, someone who has no idea what "Anime A" is or who the characters are could watch the AMV and still get the same message at the end as someone who is a die hard fan of that anime.

But I feel like this isn't something people want to see. I feel like people would much rather watch a Romance video or just some AMV that only fans of a certain anime could understand.

You are so wrong, it is something people want to see, I can say that with 100% certainty.

Then how come these type of AMVs aren't as prevalent? If I'm not wrong, I remember RrezZ stating back in the day that he doesn't give a shit about story or any of that; he just likes the external visuals of it. Also you get a lot of people (especially the YouTube audience) that look at these Akross videos as the greatest AMVs ever made yet so many of them are just senseless grunge-filled random action videos.

How are you determining whats prevalent? are we talking about views across the internet and overall recognition? If so I know people love those kind of videos from a statistical point of view.
If your talking about why they are not prevalent among editors, there could be various reasons that only people can answer themselves. Lack of skill or the time needed to invest in such projects is probably a big reason, along with just not wanting to.

[Begi]

The types of AMVs that people want to see doesn't determine the type of AMVs people want to make. It's not supply and demand.

I understand that, and I'm not exactly saying that, but to say that people won't edit a certain style to fulfill what people want to see or to live up to a certain expectation for a specific audience would be untrue. It kinda is supply and demand cause I mean c'mon...who wants to see a Niotex AMV with no fx???

But once again, that's not what I'm arguing. What I should say is I feel that these types of videos don't get noticed like videos that use a bunch of video effects with no sort of deep underlying story at all. I mean look at the top 10% rated videos http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... 0&c=&f=&t=

So many of those videos are just random effect videos that are either parodies or just fun comedy videos. Don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with that, but I feel like videos that rely on story telling go under appreciated BECAUSE people would much rather watch a comedy or romance video or just a random twitch-and-grunge-splat-all-over-the-fucking-place video.

[Begi]

ahh shit...didn't see slimed's post. but I see your point and it does make a lot of sense. i guess I'm mixing up story telling with emotional impact as well, when in reality they aren't the same thing

[AceD]

But once again, that's not what I'm arguing. What I should say is I feel that these types of videos don't get noticed like videos that use a bunch of video effects with no sort of deep underlying story at all. I mean look at the top 10% rated videos http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... 0&c=&f=&t=

That list is worthless though, it's out dated greatly due to the decline of this website. All that list reflects is when this website was at its peak in activity. 2004-2008 roughly.

The internet is bigger than this website, they get noticed. I get the feeling you just don't search around other parts of the internet very often.

[Begi]

But once again, that's not what I'm arguing. What I should say is I feel that these types of videos don't get noticed like videos that use a bunch of video effects with no sort of deep underlying story at all. I mean look at the top 10% rated videos http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... 0&c=&f=&t=

That list is worthless though, it's out dated greatly due to the decline of this website. All that list reflects is when this website was at its peak in activity. 2004-2008 roughly.

The internet is bigger than this website, they get noticed. I get the feeling you just don't search around other parts of the internet very often.

Lol that's all time stats, you can look at the most current stats if you want, it will still reflect what I'm talking about. And no to be honest I really don't. I go around youtube and here. But thats for a reason and I've brought this topic up in numerous posts and conversations, where exactly are these other AMV sites with so many videos that you talk about?

[TheAMVShow]

I don't know why but this topic made me excited. Anywho...

I guess to properly answer your question, we should start by defining what type of art AMVs are. Video art or cinema?

Video art as opposed to cinema works differently in that video art is an experience art like a painting, sclupture etc, while cinema works through storytelling even experimental films tend to hold the basics of beginning middle and end.

But there lies the problem, regular music videos tend to work as both video art and cinema so why can't AMVs?

Yes, they work on already established properities which would push it more into the realm of found footage films but those types of films work by consturcting or deconstructing established material to meet the artists whims, or as others have said the concept for the work.

That means they can have thematic meaning through story or be primarily abstract and all about pushing an aesthetic.

Now to answer your question the simple answer is I can watch both and I don't think the community is stunned by AMVs with story. What I will say though is that the community tends to force story onto AMVs.

I featured an #18.4 by imp on my show when I first started and when I looked at the orignal video comments people were telling imp the AMV needed story when it was clear that the video was more of a technical AMV meant to emphasize beat synch. I tend to see that a lot along with people saying x should do y in terms of the story and etc, but those may be more casual fans.

In my experience people crave story from AMVs whose genre they can't define. If its action they let story go to the wayside but something more obscure their first question is...where's the story?

So I guess to wrap it if you think of AMVs as cinema, then the goal should be story and theme, if you think of it as video art the focus should be the experience and the emotions you interpret from it. I appreciate both.

[AceD]

Lol that's all time stats, you can look at the most current stats if you want, it will still reflect what I'm talking about. And no to be honest I really don't. I go around youtube and here. But thats for a reason and I've brought this topic up in numerous posts and conversations, where exactly are these other AMV sites with so many videos that you talk about?

Yes, but no newer videos will it into the top list because the website is dead in comparison to several years ago, so it's redundant. I don't need to look at current stats because since the website has low activity, friends voting for friends is more likely to place videos higher than they really should be.

amvnews...? http://amvnews.ru/index.php?go=Ratings&file=byrating
youtube would also tell you people love such videos. If you think dedicated amv viewers and its editors are on amvnews, youtube has a much larger scale of casual viewers....both audiences appreciate them...so I don't see how you think such videos have no prevalence at all.

[Taite]

In my opinion, AMV's could be or not be considered art. I don't really care.
For me is just a hobby. I never liked or supported that much those videos where
they take anime characters to tell a story. I prefer original animations in that case.

Took the words out of my mouth.


There are a ton of videos that you talk about, I find that they mostly come out of the Russian AMV community though. Even on the akross.ru right sidebar, most of those videos are the "story" type.

For me, I dgaf about anime at all frankly. When I edit amvs my goal is to interpret the song, through atmosphere, concept/story, but mainly just the sounds of it, which people don't get but that's what I aim for (put simply, matching the motion of a scene in an anime clip to the music). I don't do this all the time since editing amvs is also a hobby to cure boredom, but that's what it is for me. Obviously + a concept too though, since no concept at all is just boring as shit, but a concept is very loose. It can be scenes of happy people and that's a concept.

So I tend to not enjoy amvs that focus so much on telling their own story since they tend to stray from the story of the song and only focus on the atmosphere of it, and because good stories aren't told in under ~4 minutes and by using a limited range of sources that aren't even your own, at least in my opinion. I just think morphing the clips and all that jazz, effects n stuff, isn't really art at all. Art to me is original 100%. All art is of course influenced, nothing never takes inspiration from something, but I don't think art is comprised 100% of sources that you had no creative control over.
That being said, I appreciate immensely those that can do it, like Umika and such. Some people are good at it, most aren't. I'm going to enjoy an amv if it's good regardless of whether it's a "story" amv or not though. Whether or not I enjoy it is dependent on a lot of things.

So there's several points on both sides I agree with because I tend to fall in an "idc" attitude about amvs anyhow. If they're taken too serious I don't like it. Amvs to me are not serious to any degree. The thought makes me cringe. To be so specific about what I like in an amv would be weird to me. I tend to enjoy some things more than others, specifically sentimental videos, and dislike others more than some, like the "original story" amvs, but to say one specific thing in an amv is better without a doubt like a "story" would be taking it too seriously imo.

Also I didn't read half the comments in this thread, like the first 3, so if I made a point that seems to directly confront something you said, it's probably not true.

But once again, that's not what I'm arguing. What I should say is I feel that these types of videos don't get noticed like videos that use a bunch of video effects with no sort of deep underlying story at all.

True that. If there's one type of amv I hate it's mindless-effect videos.