Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

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Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby ValerianWizard » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:58 am

Hi I'm new and I wanted to start making some AMV's. I have Sony Vegus 7, the only problem is for the life of me I can't figure out how to get the clips from my dvd's and bluray's. I tried DVDFab 7 but that's not going work, it started my trial without my knowledge and now its expired before even getting to get clips from it, I couldn't figure it out anyway, and the video that explained how to use it had the screen freezing up. I don't want to spend money on a ripper, and I can't find a free one that works either. And I can't find any information about this online and its very troublesome. So I wonder how exactly do I get clips from my dvd's or bluray's? Without it I'm not sure if I can make any real AMV's, I can't really make an AMV with gifs without the quality changing or being paranoid about it being taken off because it contains Gifs.
I already have some ideas for AMV's I'd like to do. I even have the hole collection boxset of Tsubasa, and I wanted to try editing with that first ~ !

I couldn't find any topics about this on this forum, but I hope I'm not asking something that has been explained tons before or being a bother, but I didn't know who exactly to ask.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:15 pm

The trial is only for a portion of the software, not all of it. And its the portion you shouldn't be using anyways. Re-read the guides.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:49 am

Personally I find DVDFab to be a bit bloated, but it is the only free option for ripping DVDs. As BasharOfTheAges said, you are refer to the DVD ripping guide on the A&E's Technical Guides to All Things Audio and Video (v3). Personally for Blu-ray I prefer MakeMKV, which simply recontainers the footage into a MKV container, although it is only going to remain free until the beta is over (although that doesn't look like it's going to be anytime soon). I have written a guide on how to use that particular ripper which can be found here. I'll probably end up writing a guide for using DVDFab to rip Blu-ray once MakeMKV is no longer free...
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby mirkosp » Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:39 pm

I thought MakeMKV could be used for DVDs as well, no?
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:32 pm

mirkosp wrote:I thought MakeMKV could be used for DVDs as well, no?

It can...but it doesn't make it easy to handle MPEG-2 footage when it's inside of an MKV container.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby mirkosp » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:17 am

DGIndexNV supports MKV too, otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting MakeMKV in the first place. Interlaced AVC is troublesome to handle without DGDecNV, same goes for interlaced MPEG-2, though regular DGIndex would be enough for that assuming a supported container (plain DGIndex doesn't take MKV after all).
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:48 am

mirkosp wrote:DGIndexNV supports MKV too, otherwise I wouldn't be suggesting MakeMKV in the first place. Interlaced AVC is troublesome to handle without DGDecNV, same goes for interlaced MPEG-2, though regular DGIndex would be enough for that assuming a supported container (plain DGIndex doesn't take MKV after all).

I suggest it for Blu-ray as most people will typically be handling h264 source (MKV or MP4) via FFvideosource() in AviSynth. You will rarely come across interlaced Blu-ray video and DGDecNV can be very glitchy so I wouldn't recommend it for regular use for all AVC content. The reason I suggest MakeMKV is the fact it's rather straight forward and simple while also having less trouble with new content. Also, as you pointed out yourself, DGIndex (which is how all MPEG-2 content should be handled) doesn't support MKV, which is the main reason why I did not suggest it for use with DVDs despite the fact that it can decrypt them. There are many ways to handle decrypting footage, but there is no single way that is more correct than others, I just posted my personal preference.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby mirkosp » Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:58 am

>DGDecNV is very glitchy
What are you smoking, exactly?
You are probably thinking of the ffmpeg based DGAVCDec, which was indeed bad and support for it was dropped. The one I'm talking about is the NVidia CUDA one, which is frame accurate with all supported sources, regardless of whether the content is progressive or interlaced.

Also, I will have to say that FFMS2 is a bad idea for direct BD AVC (and not just that), and remuxing isn't a solution to fix the problem, since it's not related to the container, hence why I suggest L-Smash Works now; here's a more indepth explanation (keep in mind that ffms2 relies directly on libav). For progressive content, L-Smash Works is a safe option, for interlaced content, only DGDecNV is truly safe.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:15 am

mirkosp wrote:>DGDecNV is very glitchy
What are you smoking, exactly?
You are probably thinking of the ffmpeg based DGAVCDec, which was indeed bad and support for it was dropped. The one I'm talking about is the NVidia CUDA one, which is frame accurate with all supported sources, regardless of whether the content is progressive or interlaced.

Also, I will have to say that FFMS2 is a bad idea for direct BD AVC (and not just that), and remuxing isn't a solution to fix the problem, since it's not related to the container, hence why I suggest L-Smash Works now; here's a more indepth explanation (keep in mind that ffms2 relies directly on libav). For progressive content, L-Smash Works is a safe option, for interlaced content, only DGDecNV is truly safe.

From past experience I have found it to be glitchy and you also need to be using an Nvidia graphics card:
NGDecNV Website wrote:DGDecNV is a decoder/frameserver for AVC, MPEG2, and VC1 streams that runs on the GPU of Nvidia graphics cards that support CUDA video decoding.
So I can't exactly recommend that to everyone since all computers do not have Nvidia graphics cards.

Let's also touch on the fact that it IS NOT FREE!

Overall I have had fewer issues handling Blu-ray AVC through AviSynth with ffmpegsource than I have using both DGDecNV and DGAVCDec (since you mentioned that as well). My personal preference is for the regularly updated software decoders than being at the mercy of a singular type of hardware decoder. Also, you keep throwing out "interlaced AVC" as if it's a common thing; it's very rare to find an interlaced Blu-ray considering most HD content is not interlaced to being with, but it would be correct to use something like DGDecNV (assuming you have compatible hardware) if that is what you are working with.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby mirkosp » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:27 am

15 bucks ain't going to kill anybody.
DGAVCDec was bad, however issues with DGDecNV are likely due to misuse or misunderstanding something, as the software behaved correctly with all the sources I've put it through, including interlaced AVC Transport Streams, interlaced AVC BDs, MPEG-2 BDs and VC-1 BDs. As these are all set-in-stone standards for the end user, a hardware decoder tailored specifically for decoding these sources is the most reliable way to deal with them, hence why DGDecNV is the best option when possible, even with the price tag attached to it.
Clearly it's not always necessary, particularly with progressive sources now that there is L-Smash Works, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its usage, nor that it's glitchy, as it's quite the opposite.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:29 am

mirkosp wrote:15 bucks ain't going to kill anybody.
DGAVCDec was bad, however issues with DGDecNV are likely due to misuse or misunderstanding something, as the software behaved correctly with all the sources I've put it through, including interlaced AVC Transport Streams, interlaced AVC BDs, MPEG-2 BDs and VC-1 BDs. As these are all set-in-stone standards for the end user, a hardware decoder tailored specifically for decoding these sources is the most reliable way to deal with them, hence why DGDecNV is the best option when possible, even with the price tag attached to it.
Clearly it's not always necessary, particularly with progressive sources now that there is L-Smash Works, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have its usage, nor that it's glitchy, as it's quite the opposite.

Well, it's also relies on a hardware decoder, so it could be driver issues or hardware compatibility as well, not just "user error"...when you start relying on hardware decoders, the variety of hardware and difference in execution of similar tasks can cause issues. The software decoders tend to have less "variety" in decoding errors and for the most part will perform the same across the board. Just keep in mind that just because hardware decoders are made to handle certain footage does NOT mean that it will do a better job compared to regularly updated software decoders. Also, the reason I mentioned the cost is that fact that the original poster specifies little interested in paying for software. As you said, DGDecNV is the best option...if you are using an Nvidia card that supports the features it needs and proves to be compatible with the current version of the software...hardly a "catch all" recommendation when you know nothing of the user's computer.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby mirkosp » Thu Jun 20, 2013 1:29 pm

It's not just any hardware. In order to work it just needs an Nvidia GPU with VP2 or better. As long as it has that, the decoded results will be identical regardless of the specific hardware.
Moreover, you are overlooking an important fact: decoding of AVC is specifically standardized (MPEG-2 decoding can differ since the standard doesn't state exactly how the decoded result should look), so regardless of software or hardware decoder, as long as a given Profile@Level is supported, the decoded result has to be bit identical in order for the implementation to be standard compliant. Any further difference is not due to decoding but further processing; for instance, dithering in case of higher bitdepth content which needs to be brought to 8bit, or debanding or whatever other processing a filter AFTER the decode would be doing.
However the former case (dithering) is not a case here since BDs are 8bit to begin with, and since no further processing is done by the decoder, as far as the latter case goes, it's all up to the user to employ whichever avisynth filters they would see fit, if any.
So yes, hardware decoders and software decoders will in fact do an IDENTICAL job at decoding, otherwise something is very wrong with their implementation of the standard. The only difference would be in the speed they'd be running at, which of course depends on the hardware the user has at disposal.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Thu Jun 20, 2013 2:57 pm

mirkosp wrote:It's not just any hardware. In order to work it just needs an Nvidia GPU with VP2 or better. As long as it has that, the decoded results will be identical regardless of the specific hardware.
What that is true, it does not mean it's free from errors, and if there happens to be an error in the stream (in case of TS streams) some hardware decoders do not handle that that well. Obviously on Blu-ray you shouldn't have that kind of issue.
mirkosp wrote:Moreover, you are overlooking an important fact: decoding of AVC is specifically standardized (MPEG-2 decoding can differ since the standard doesn't state exactly how the decoded result should look), so regardless of software or hardware decoder, as long as a given Profile@Level is supported, the decoded result has to be bit identical in order for the implementation to be standard compliant. Any further difference is not due to decoding but further processing; for instance, dithering in case of higher bitdepth content which needs to be brought to 8bit, or debanding or whatever other processing a filter AFTER the decode would be doing.
Where did I ignore this? All I stated was there is room for error based on the software's compatibility with the hardware device based on how the system uses it with the drivers.
mirkosp wrote:So yes, hardware decoders and software decoders will in fact do an IDENTICAL job at decoding, otherwise something is very wrong with their implementation of the standard. The only difference would be in the speed they'd be running at, which of course depends on the hardware the user has at disposal.
I don't really see the point in encouraging a highly limited way of handling footage for the small percentage of time in which it proves to be more useful (interlaced AVC footage), considering a very small amount of content will tend to fall into that category to begin with (especially if you don't bother to mention the fact that it is limited to Nvidia hardware as well). Additionally I'm not going to tell someone to go out and buy a video card so they can use a method to decode the footage just because it can handle the 1% of footage they will encounter that is interlaced.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby mirkosp » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:16 pm

And so since interlaced content is rare, automatically FFMS2 is the best option to suggest even when L-Smash Works is out there, free for all, and better? I still don't get that.
One thing is me defending the best option out there, another is suggesting the third one when there is a free and better close second, now.
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Re: Getting the clips from a DVD or Blu-ray?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Thu Jun 20, 2013 3:19 pm

mirkosp wrote:And so since interlaced content is rare, automatically FFMS2 is the best option to suggest even when L-Smash Works is out there, free for all, and better? I still don't get that.
One thing is me defending the best option out there, another is suggesting the third one when there is a free and better close second, now.
I never said it was BETTER, but it definitely is more convenient to use (especially if you don't have an Nvidia graphics card).
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