Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Critique

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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Kionon » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:10 pm

1 in 300 "men" are not XY. 1 in 60 have hormonal balances outside of the "norm," called androgen receptivity problems. Someone who develops some, most, or all male primary and secondary characteristics may be XXY, XXXY, or even XX. Other genetic formations may affect other types of development.

Your dimorphic "truth" is a lie.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Kionon » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:12 pm

Kionon wrote:...most, or all male primary and secondary characteristics may be XXY, XXXY, or even XX.
XXXY should actually be XXXXY here, four not three (49,XXXXY, iirc, can cite if necessary).
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Ultimatetransfan » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:07 pm

Which one of you just left a comment on my video to stir up crap?
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Kionon » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:55 pm

Ultimatetransfan wrote:Which one of you just left a comment on my video to stir up crap?
I don't think anyone here involved in this thread would do that. If you think someone left a hostile remark, especially one which is misogynistic, etc, drop it to the mods. Or heck, drop it here, if you honestly believe it is related to this thread.

If it is, that is unacceptable.
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Ultimatetransfan » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:07 pm

Kionon wrote:
Ultimatetransfan wrote:Which one of you just left a comment on my video to stir up crap?
I don't think anyone here involved in this thread would do that. If you think someone left a hostile remark, especially one which is misogynistic, etc, drop it to the mods. Or heck, drop it here, if you honestly believe it is related to this thread.

If it is, that is unacceptable.
Someone is, and someone did.

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This is not misogynistic, it is just mean-spirited. Trying to make me look a fool based on one video, that still has nothing to do with the gender of the creator.
I am not changing my stance. The content of my videos does not have to do with my gender. These 2 pieces of media fit together, so I put them together. I could easily be one gender or the other, and it wouldn't be known unless someone sought out the information.
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by AMVGuide » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:43 pm

@Kionon: Sexual dimorphism is only one way science attempts to describe the biological world.

Consider this:

Everyone has Testosterone and Estrogen.

The balance of T and E results in male/female traits being more pronounced:
If the balance is more towards T, male traits become more pronounced.
If the balance is more towards E, female traits become more pronounced.

This doesn't mean that everyone is going to be exaggerated towards one pole.
Although, generally speaking, one does wind up on one side of the balance-- it's just a matter of how much.
If we're talking about from birth, starting from that slight unbalanced point, a chain reaction is set off:

http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... hp?v=56572
( I like to imagine the starting would look something like this )

Then, environmental factors tend to tip the hormone balance towards that direction more and more; often toppling over onto one side completely; giving rise to the genotypic traits typical of male and female; but not always.

Now, out of convenience, most people correlate gender with their genotypic traits.
Unfortunately, sometimes that convenience isn't there.
But here's the thing: Gender can be whatever you make it to be.

Now back to the point:
Hormones like Testosterone affect who you are. And --whether you think about it or not-- it can come through in an AMV.

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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Castor Troy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:36 pm

This is probably the stupidest thread I've ever read on the .org and I'm probably not even going to bother reading anything past the 3rd page.
Despite the number of outstanding, amazing, veteran women editors we have, these spaces are still overwhelmingly male dominated. And that is a problem.
When the hell was there ever an apparent problem with men dominating over women in the amv community? Kionon, you've been around longer than the time EK was dominating the scene with her "Failed Experiments in Video Editing" video, so why has this suddenly become a problem for you?
This is a call to get out of our comfort zones. To challenge misogyny where and when we see it. To not participate in it in order to deflect it away from ourselves. To question our assumptions about what we may or may not have internalised. And to ultimately be nicer to each other.
No. This type of discussion does not belong on the .org. This is a place to talk about videos, not your desire to be every woman's knight in shining armor.

We were fine the way we were before. Thanks. :roll:
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Kionon » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:01 am

AMVGuide, you said @Kionon, so I am going to presume that little primer was directed at me. Do you at all see the irony in lecturing me on hormone balances and their subsequent traits?

:roll:

I probably know more about this stuff both in theory and in personal experience than most individuals here. Certainly most men. Although, in my experience, women in general have a far better understanding of hormonal balances affect moods, actions, and personalities (as well as physical traits) because of the menstrual cycle, use of hormonal birth control, hormone replacement therapy, menopause, etc.

If you were just making general comments and happened to tag me for some strange reason knowing that I was already well aware of this stuff, then please accept my apologies.

Gender is a social construction, but also a real one. Of course it comes through in art. And certainly a hormonal imbalance can given one different perspectives on art which might come through in creative endeavours, but hormone imbalances don't create gender. They just might dispose one towards a gender construction which is already in existence in a certain time, place, culture.
Castor Troy wrote:When the hell was there ever an apparent problem with men dominating over women in the amv community? Kionon, you've been around longer than the time EK was dominating the scene with her "Failed Experiments in Video Editing" video, so why has this suddenly become a problem for you?
You tell me. Is this suddenly a new issue? Did it just somehow develop in the time I've become aware of it? I'm well aware of EK's popularity, but I have a hard, hard time believing that EK managed to dominate the entire hobby by herself. This isn't about numbers, so I'd seriously consider any evidence you had of that. I am not planning to speak for EK, although I might send her a message asking if she has any particular thought on this and how it affected the early days.

Why has this suddenly become a problem for me? First, I quibble with the word suddenly. It's taken me a few years to go to this point and quite a few months of observations to finish and release the essay. Now, if you ask me why it has become a problem over the last few years, there are a few reasons, most notably the removal of my own privilege blinders. Your critique here is valid; where was I? As I look back at years old bullshit comments, I have to wonder where the hell I was, too. Well, I will be blunt, there is personal experience here as well. That's how privilege works. It blinds you until you yourself no longer have privilege, for one reason or another, and what I have experienced is part of a larger pervasive pattern.

What has been seen cannot be unseen.
No. This type of discussion does not belong on the .org. This is a place to talk about videos, not your desire to be every woman's knight in shining armor.
General AMV is also a place to talk about issues in the AMV communities. Unless you're suggesting we stop talking about how we treat outsiders or newbies or WMM users or, etc, etc. Why bother talking about the ways in which the hobby socialises at all if this is only a place to talk about videos?

You're accusing me of white knighting? Are you serious? Do you even know what that means? You act as though just because it was crap directed at others that prompted me to post this that I'm somehow exempt from it myself. This was a feminist critique by a feminist who has had her own personal fill of misogynistic bullshit thrown her way in AMV spaces. Don't put me in some kind of category as an unaffected third party riding in to save the day. Seriously, cut that out.
We were fine the way we were before. Thanks. :roll:
Yeah, because these are experiences you don't have to deal with so they must not exist and must not be a problem for anyone ever. :roll:
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by Castor Troy » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:24 am

Beowulf wrote:holy shit wtf does any of this have to do with amvs. :bzz2: :bzz2: :bzz2: :bzz2: :bzz2: :bzz2:
x2
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Re: Talent, Skill, Popularity, and Misogyny: A Feminist Crit

Post by AMVGuide » Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:02 pm

@Kionon: My comment about Sexual dimorphism was directed at you since there were a lot of other comments in between; and I wasn't quite sure what you meant when you said: "Put that in your pipe and smoke it." Comments like that are very open to interpretation, so I directed my comment towards you; partially to check for agreement; and partially to air some ideas for everyone else.

@Castor Troy: If it makes you uncomfortable, you can always choose to ignore the thread; but I think you'd be ignoring some valuable insights since things like AMVs --or any creation for that matter-- are a reflection of yourself and who you are. And when you see things in this way, it's remarkable to notice how something like Gender (or more recently discussed, things like Testosterone & Estrogen) can have an influence in your work.

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