Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a PC?

This forum is for video and audio help and discussion.

Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a PC?

Postby Adv1sor » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:15 pm

I know it's not AMV related but, can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a PC?

Preferably free:)
User avatar
Adv1sor
 
Joined: 01 Nov 2004

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby Adv1sor » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Nevermind, it seems I can just use Ulead.
User avatar
Adv1sor
 
Joined: 01 Nov 2004

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby Adv1sor » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:23 pm

or not... Ulead locks up with just a couple 1080 clips.

Any suggestions for a better program?
User avatar
Adv1sor
 
Joined: 01 Nov 2004

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby Mister Hatt » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:21 pm

Treat it like a regular source in avs, render a lossless or w/e, and throw it into your NLE of choice.
Mister Hatt
 
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Status: better than you

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:52 pm

Adv1sor wrote:I know it's not AMV related but, can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a PC?

Preferably free:)

The iphone recordes h264 video and AAC audio and stores it in a MOV container. If your editing software supports MP4 files then simply use MP4Box (or a GUI for it such as YAMB or MP4Box GUI) to recontainer the footage into a MP4. If your software does not, you can use AviSynth to reencode the video to a lossless AVI to work with.
Guides, Scripts, & Software: AMV 101 | AMVpack | AviSynth 101 | Anime Upscale
PixelBlended Studios: Website | Facebook | Tumblr | Twitter | YouTube
User avatar
l33tmeatwad
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Status: Trolling

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby Mister Hatt » Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:16 pm

Not necessary, if it reads mp4 it can read mov. Still makes more sense to do it in avisynth though.
Mister Hatt
 
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Status: better than you

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby l33tmeatwad » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:12 am

Mister Hatt wrote:Not necessary, if it reads mp4 it can read mov. Still makes more sense to do it in avisynth though.

Not all software support all containers! I know several versions of Vegas do not natively support MOV and requires you to install a plugin. Also, sometimes the container can effect the way the software interacts with the file; for example, Premiere CS6 supports reading of M2TS files, but will cause a significant amount of lag reading from the container, but simply recontainering to MP4 fixes the issues.

Maybe to you AviSynth makes more sense, but if it's a simple edit of shot footage I don't really see the point since the software (if it supports h264) can properly decode the footage for editing (and takes things into consideration most people don't, like color matrix...which most people don't handle HD footage correctly since Rec601 is the default in AviSynth, which would be incorrect for HD footage!).

Just because AviSynth is versatile and useful for cleaning footage, it does not mean it's the right answer for everything :sorcerer:
Guides, Scripts, & Software: AMV 101 | AMVpack | AviSynth 101 | Anime Upscale
PixelBlended Studios: Website | Facebook | Tumblr | Twitter | YouTube
User avatar
l33tmeatwad
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Status: Trolling

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby mirkosp » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:27 am

Editing with non intra-only h.264 files directly is pretty much as bad as editing with xvid/divx directly.
With the difference that non-linear seeking and backward speed will be even more agonizingly slow.

I really don't understand why people shouldn't prefer an intra-only stream whenever possible, makes editing much more relaxing and to the point.
Image
User avatar
mirkosp
MODkip
 
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Location: Gallarate (VA), Italy
Status: (」・ワ・)」(⊃・ワ・)⊃

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby l33tmeatwad » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:57 am

mirkosp wrote:Editing with non intra-only h.264 files directly is pretty much as bad as editing with xvid/divx directly. With the difference that non-linear seeking and backward speed will be even more agonizingly slow.

Pretty bold statement that is way over exaggerated. It is true that there may be some speed and other advantages to editing with lossless AVI files, with the power of most computers these days that's not a huge issue. That said, it really depends on the software you are using.
mirkosp wrote:I really don't understand why people shouldn't prefer an intra-only stream whenever possible, makes editing much more relaxing and to the point.

For some it's easier to just load the file and edit rather than going through extra steps to convert source and eat hard drive space. I would rather take the time to explain how to figure out how someone can use the existing footage or show them how to recontainer it if that is nessisary as opposed to having them go off on their own and reencode the footage into an MP4 container because I refused to answer their question to begin with (which I have had people I have helped before do when attempting to get them to use methods like lossless AVIs because they simply lacked the hard drive space).

You really have to look at the questions and what people are seeking out of them. I'm highly doubt someone is looking to create professional grade video from iPhone captured footage, so if they want to edit the footage directly I see no harm in pointing them to quicker ways that are less hassle.
Guides, Scripts, & Software: AMV 101 | AMVpack | AviSynth 101 | Anime Upscale
PixelBlended Studios: Website | Facebook | Tumblr | Twitter | YouTube
User avatar
l33tmeatwad
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Status: Trolling

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby mirkosp » Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:13 am

It's not even about quality... if keyframes are too far from each other and you need to reverse speed/do heavy time alterations/massive overlays/whatever, the seek time will hit on you even with a good cpu, because you're limited by the hard drive speed too, and not just by the processing power.
Depending on what file they are using for editing, there may be literally hundreds of frames between keyframes, and that won't be fun to reverse or seek through.
Once upon a time I used to load .avs directly in premiere to edit to save space. With time I realized why people suggested lossless clipping on my own.

Then again with iphone footage it likely has plenty of keyframes (prolly 24 frame GOPs or something like that), so it shouldn't be too bad...

But anyway, when I say intra only I don't even necessarily mean lossless. Even h.264 or whatever else. Just... only keyframes, or possibly 1 or 2 P frames per GOP tops.
Image
User avatar
mirkosp
MODkip
 
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Location: Gallarate (VA), Italy
Status: (」・ワ・)」(⊃・ワ・)⊃

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby l33tmeatwad » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:03 am

mirkosp wrote:It's not even about quality... if keyframes are too far from each other and you need to reverse speed/do heavy time alterations/massive overlays/whatever, the seek time will hit on you even with a good cpu, because you're limited by the hard drive speed too, and not just by the processing power.
Depending on what file they are using for editing, there may be literally hundreds of frames between keyframes, and that won't be fun to reverse or seek through.
Once upon a time I used to load .avs directly in premiere to edit to save space. With time I realized why people suggested lossless clipping on my own.

Then again with iphone footage it likely has plenty of keyframes (prolly 24 frame GOPs or something like that), so it shouldn't be too bad...

But anyway, when I say intra only I don't even necessarily mean lossless. Even h.264 or whatever else. Just... only keyframes, or possibly 1 or 2 P frames per GOP tops.

Well, if you are going from lossy to anything else I would only suggest lossless, but I get your point. Again, it really depends on what software you are using, the footage itself, and what you plan on using it for (which was my point), as I know some (like Premiere) handle it quite nicely and you can generate previews that the software will read from. Additionally, I've found that teaching people about recontainering not only gives them a better understand of what containers are, but it also tends to nix a lot of bad habits as well (such as reencoding footage with x264 again to an MP4 container, or worse, encoding footage to older MPEG-4 codecs).

Again, I didn't get the feeling the original poster really wanted to do anything extensive with the footage so that is the main thing behind my suggestion. Generally if I catch that the editor wants to edit something intensive (like an AMV) then I will usually stress the advantages of converting the video the lossless AVIsto work with first, but I will also give the option to choose. Some have to learn on their own (as I see you did as well), so I give them the power to chose what they want with options.

Not trying to start a war, just giving my thoughts on the matter :sorcerer:
Guides, Scripts, & Software: AMV 101 | AMVpack | AviSynth 101 | Anime Upscale
PixelBlended Studios: Website | Facebook | Tumblr | Twitter | YouTube
User avatar
l33tmeatwad
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Status: Trolling

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby mirkosp » Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:11 am

Yeah, that's fine. In general I'm concerned about this because... I didn't enjoy what I had to go through back then, so now I really stress on it just so I can spare other people from making my same mistake from back then. :sweat:
Image
User avatar
mirkosp
MODkip
 
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Location: Gallarate (VA), Italy
Status: (」・ワ・)」(⊃・ワ・)⊃

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby l33tmeatwad » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:58 pm

mirkosp wrote:Yeah, that's fine. In general I'm concerned about this because... I didn't enjoy what I had to go through back then, so now I really stress on it just so I can spare other people from making my same mistake from back then. :sweat:

Haha, I hear ya...I've been doing this kinda stuff for so long that I've had my share of "doing it the hard way" as well. Having taught people over the years (not just tech based stuff) I've learned that some people need to be told exactly what to do, while others do not want that at all, but would rather be given options so they can "learn" or "figure it out" themselves. There are also those that only want to know how they envisioned doing it and will ignore all advice that isn't the direct answer that they are looking for. I try to keep a balanced approach so I can at least point people in a better direction, even if it's not the BEST option, while usually making mention that there are better ways.
Guides, Scripts, & Software: AMV 101 | AMVpack | AviSynth 101 | Anime Upscale
PixelBlended Studios: Website | Facebook | Tumblr | Twitter | YouTube
User avatar
l33tmeatwad
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Status: Trolling

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby Mister Hatt » Sat May 04, 2013 2:36 am

Ah... what? Avisynth doesn't have a default colourspace for loaded clips, it defers to the source plugin. Also, MOV is a subset of MP4 so it has to work unless the demuxer has incomplete MP4 support to begin with.

As far as seek times etc, the biggest limiting factors are HDD spin speed and CPU cache size, not the CPU speed in itself. Large files or poorly spaced keyframes hit on HDD limits due to buffers not being large enough and seeks not being fast enough, so lossy but intra-only AVC is a good choice if it compresses better than lossless. Too many reference frames and other complicated bits and bobs have inefficient decoding thanks to limited CPU cache so going intra-only and not relying on references improve speed in that regard, even on something like an i3. Of course that depends on the decoder at hand as well.
Mister Hatt
 
Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Status: better than you

Re: Can anyone suggest a program to edit iphone video on a P

Postby l33tmeatwad » Sat May 04, 2013 10:20 am

Mister Hatt wrote:Ah... what? Avisynth doesn't have a default colourspace for loaded clips, it defers to the source plugin.

You are correct, it does not have a default colorspace for the loaded clips and does use the colorspace based on the information referred to it by the input plugin (which reads the colorspace information from the video file itself). That said, it does have a default way of reading the color information of YV12 footage when converting to RGB, which is by using the Rec.601 color matrix. This information is in the AviSynth documentation...I'm surprised someone as well versed in this as you are happened to overlook this, but to be fair it's not easy to notice most of the time as it does not throw the overall hue way off or anything. Here is an example using HD footage (resized in Photoshop after taking the screenshots):

Image

Mister Hatt wrote:Also, MOV is a subset of MP4 so it has to work unless the demuxer has incomplete MP4 support to begin with.
What should be the case is not always how things actually are. It depends on how the software is handling the containers, sometimes plugins don't always support what you think they should. Just because MP4 was developed based on MOV does not mean software that supports MP4 will by default support the use of or handling of a MOV container. Additionally, the way in which a particular software handles containers can control how the footage performs in the editing software. This can cause one type of container to have a significant amount of lag and/or other issues compared to another even with the same exact video information inside of them.

Mister Hatt wrote:As far as seek times etc, the biggest limiting factors are HDD spin speed and CPU cache size, not the CPU speed in itself. Large files or poorly spaced keyframes hit on HDD limits due to buffers not being large enough and seeks not being fast enough, so lossy but intra-only AVC is a good choice if it compresses better than lossless. Too many reference frames and other complicated bits and bobs have inefficient decoding thanks to limited CPU cache so going intra-only and not relying on references improve speed in that regard, even on something like an i3. Of course that depends on the decoder at hand as well.
Exactly, it depends on a lot of factors, and having used iPhone footage to do simple edit before it is not going to be a nightmare. Again, not trying to start a war here, but it's rather deceptive to not give possible options because those options aren't good for COMPLEX editing, yet are perfectly fine for simple tasks.
Guides, Scripts, & Software: AMV 101 | AMVpack | AviSynth 101 | Anime Upscale
PixelBlended Studios: Website | Facebook | Tumblr | Twitter | YouTube
User avatar
l33tmeatwad
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, SC
Status: Trolling

Next

Return to Video & Audio Help

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron