P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

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RAWdangers
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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by RAWdangers » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:53 am

Rendakor wrote:I disagree RAWdangers; the only fair time to discuss judging, criteria, etc. is now, before the first round of scores has been posted. To do so afterwards would just seem like complaining because Video X won while Video Y lost, and thus unlikely to result in any change for that or future rounds.
As a competitor, it is not our job to tell the judges how to judge. That is up to Code. Having this entire debate about how to judge before we've even seen how the judges judge seems offensive to the judges in my opinion, as if we are saying that we don't trust them to judge and expect them to conform on our, the competitors, wishes, which they are not supposed to do. I'm not saying that they should be biased or unfair but I'm trusting them to judge fairly, before I have a problem with them. And about complaining afterwards, I agree that it can seem whinny sometimes, but again, if there is a serious problem in the judging, we'll only know after seeing the results. Then you can take that up with Code, and if he agrees, then we have a problem. However, we are creating a problem now, where it doesn't exist.
Pwolf wrote:
This is why guidelines are used, so that there is no confusion. Don't get me wrong, you are allowed to have an opinion within the guidelines but follow the guidelines as they are laid out, not what your opinion might be of the guidelines. What's the point of having standards if no one follows them? Hell, this statement says it all:
Each video will be judged based upon the following criteria:
Not "could be judged" or "may be judged" "Will". I expect the videos to be judged as outlined, not "as outlined based on what the judges think it should be".
Certainly, and I expect them to follow the guidelines. But let's not play the 2nd amendment game and only look at only a portion of what Code posted.
Spoiler :
Section 4 : Judging

Judges will be public, but judging will be blind. Videos MUST retain their anonymity until the end of the round to ensure this. Judges have been instructed to leave short comments regarding the scores given and their overall opinion of your videos. Also, if you're reading this, congratulations for actually reading the entire thread! Please note that you should put an icon/picture of a wizard in your registration post. Posts without wizards will not be considered.

Each video will be judged based upon the following criteria:

Concept: 20 Points
Visual/Audio: 20 Points
Sync/Editing: 20 Points
Theme Challenge: 20 Points
Overall: 20 Points

Concept: If the video has a point to it. Is it 3 minutes of footage slapped onto a song, or is there a purpose behind the editing? While it doesn't necessarily have to have a story, it should still have a purpose/theme behind it.

Visual/Audio: Technical aspect of the video. 10 points for visual and 10 points for audio. Is the footage as clean as it can be? Is the audio as script and clear as can be? Please be sure to take note that older sources will not be penalized for being an old source.

Sync/Editing: How well the video was edited/synced to the music. Does the video and music work well together? Did the editor actually edit the video?

Theme Challenge: How well the video addressed the theme challenge. Does the video attempt to take the challenge into account, or is it just a video for the sake of being a video?

Overall: How the video comes together as a whole. Does the editing/sync, the theme challenge, the technical qualities and the concept meld together well?
Aye, Code gives the criteria that each judge is going to use to "score" the videos. However, he has not laid out a point by point system, dictating what qualifies a 1, 2, 3, . . . 20 score. That is where the judges come in. It is up to them to decide what is a 1, 2, . . . 20, in their opinion while using the guidelines as what they are, a guide. If Code had given a point by point system, in which originality was never mentioned, then i would agree that originality has no part in judging. However, he hasn't, and he's left it up to the judges to interpret the criteria. The judges have to be able to differentiate between the videos and decide who gets to move on, and who gets eliminated, and the idea of originality is certainly, I believe, a fair standard. I'm not saying the a video thats really original but poorly edited should move on over a super well edited video using 5cm, but I do believe that originality is fair game.

In terms of concept, originality fits in, in my opinion, in the fact that the judges must consider what is a good concept and what is a bad concept if they are to be able to differentiate scores. If they were to judge based solely upon a literal interpretation of Code's guidelines, then you are probably going to have 20 or more videos with the same score. And if the judge believes that being more original is part of having a good concept, then that is their interpretation of the criteria and they would still be adhering to Code's guidelines.

We've been focusing on originality as part of concept, but I believe that it could also fit in the Overall criteria. If a video is the same as 20 other videos, than it may not necessarily come together for a judge as a video that is different and stands out.

The quote of Code's rules saying "will be judged on the following criteria" in my opinion is only stating that the judges can't just create a new category called "Originality" and then give points from 1-20, but if they incorporate originality within the criteria Code has given, that should be fair game.

Oh yeah, Kit, feel free to count this xPP

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by Pwolf » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:07 pm

Hypothetically speaking, if the judges don't like the sound of the vocals in a song they can remove points for audio. Or maybe they don't like classical music so they knock down points for that. Or what about a judge that doesn't like effects so any video that uses effects will lose points for visuals and editing. If they guidelines are open to interpretation then why not? Is that fair? I certainly hope not.

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by Kitsuner » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:08 pm

Twenty judges judging.
RAWdangers wrote: I agree that it can seem whinny sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCkSJhCD6SA
OtakuGray wrote:Sometimes anime can branch out to a younger audience and this is one of those times where you wish children would just go die.
Stirspeare wrote:<Stirspeare> Lopez: Vanquish my virginity and flood me with kit. ["Ladies..."]

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by Kitsuner » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:18 pm

RAWdangers wrote: I'm not saying that they should be biased or unfair but I'm trusting them to judge fairly, before I have a problem with them. And about complaining afterwards, I agree that it can seem whinny sometimes, but again, if there is a serious problem in the judging, we'll only know after seeing the results. Then you can take that up with Code, and if he agrees, then we have a problem. However, we are creating a problem now, where it doesn't exist.
I think what Scott's saying is that we HAVE had these problems with judging in the past. Yes, most of these judges are new, but editors have been burned by that kind of subjectivity before - especially considering how vague some of the phrasing on some of Code's themes can be.
OtakuGray wrote:Sometimes anime can branch out to a younger audience and this is one of those times where you wish children would just go die.
Stirspeare wrote:<Stirspeare> Lopez: Vanquish my virginity and flood me with kit. ["Ladies..."]

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by RAWdangers » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:19 pm

Pwolf wrote:Hypothetically speaking, if the judges don't like the sound of the vocals in a song they can remove points for audio. Or maybe they don't like classical music so they knock down points for that. Or what about a judge that doesn't like effects so any video that uses effects will lose points for visuals and editing. If they guidelines are open to interpretation then why not? Is that fair? I certainly hope not.
Nice slippery slope argument. If you actually think the judges are going to be that petty, then you have no faith in the judges. I believe this debate is over.

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by GuntherAMVs » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:21 pm

*in lawyer clothes*
*bangs gavel* OwO. . .
*flings sparkles* >w<~
LIVE YOUR ART. LOVE YOUR LIFE.

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by Kitsuner » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:22 pm

RAWdangers wrote:
Pwolf wrote:Hypothetically speaking, if the judges don't like the sound of the vocals in a song they can remove points for audio. Or maybe they don't like classical music so they knock down points for that. Or what about a judge that doesn't like effects so any video that uses effects will lose points for visuals and editing. If they guidelines are open to interpretation then why not? Is that fair? I certainly hope not.
Nice slippery slope argument. If you actually think the judges are going to be that petty, then you have no faith in the judges. I believe this debate is over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTO3ecChOcM
OtakuGray wrote:Sometimes anime can branch out to a younger audience and this is one of those times where you wish children would just go die.
Stirspeare wrote:<Stirspeare> Lopez: Vanquish my virginity and flood me with kit. ["Ladies..."]

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by Ileia » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:38 pm

GuntherAMVs wrote:*in lawyer clothes*
*bangs Tommy* OwO. . .
*flings sparkles* >w<~
:cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake: :cupcake:

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by GuntherAMVs » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:43 pm

OMGH!! O/////////////O xDDDD!!!
ILEIA!! xDDDDD
This is not the thread for this-! And just after a serious debate too-!! xDD
*uses sparkles to flee like a ninja*
LIVE YOUR ART. LOVE YOUR LIFE.

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Re: P.O.E Season 3 : Round 1 - "The King of Spring"

Post by JaddziaDax » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:03 pm

GuntherAMVs wrote:sparkles
GuntherAMVs wrote:sparkles

okay Sparkles wins me over, which is your vid? I'll give you all 20s... O:

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