Obama Wins!

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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Taite » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:37 pm

trythil wrote:
Taite wrote:
trythil wrote: There is too much insistence on winning and almost no discussion of the veracity or implications of statements like these:


The topic is called "Obama Wins!" ?? The majority of this thread is mainly just reactions to that simple fact.


My post is a reaction to those reaction, as I have a problem with this thread. Rubbing victory in other people's faces is just as bad in politics as it is in sports, and it promotes nonconstructive bad blood, like your reaction. Sometimes that's useful, but in a political system as sick as the one we currently have I don't think it's the way to go.

I'm not attacking you, I'm asking that this "my side is best side" crap end. That goes for everyone.


I agree, bickering over which side is best isn't useful to anyone, or rubbing it in faces. I had to deal with that all day and it's more annoying than anything, though over the internet I really don't care, do what you want. My reaction wasn't really in response to any one else though, and it wasn't even a "I'm happy/sad Romney/Obama won/didn't win." I'm just angry about the fact that Ron Paul never had a shot at this, and now we're left divided. It's not useful to be angry/negative/whatever emotion over politics, but that's generally what happens when it affects your person life. It doesn't help, but it's only human. This thread mainly received celebratory responses, and that's not a surprise considering the audience, but people will do what they will and I personally don't have an issue with it. Go dance in the rain if you like, it doesn't bother me.
But yes, I agree with your points.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby lloyd9988 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:09 am

Maybe I'm a little off by saying this but... is there a possibility that this whole election that occurred was rigged??

I mean... Listening to Romney's first speech, yes he had good points about war and budgetting but when he spoke... his points didn't seem to align. Like his points about how he planned on reducing the unemployment rate, not having a 5 trillion dollar tax cut and increase military spending...

I mean... I know its kind of a normal standard for republican stance... but... I thought it was a bit of coinciding information that would've backfired later... So... I was wondering like who chose him as a republican candidate and why? . . .
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby requiett » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:18 am

Haha, I voted Johnson.
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Obama Wins!

Postby ngsilver » Thu Nov 08, 2012 12:21 am

I retract my first post. Judging by the size of this thread and the comments within it is almost a certainty that an election had happened while I was busy playing HALO 4. Please excuse my ignorance.... But exactly who is president again?
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:45 am

trythil wrote:
CodeZTM wrote:Actually, I was celebrating progress, not so much who won the damn election. I could give two flying dinos who's president or which side wins, all I care about is them forward marching us towards social equality for all. And until Republicans put up someone who's socially/morally/ethically bankrupt, then I'm putting on my damn party hat when Democrats win some seats or the Presidency. |:>


First off, you edited "socially/morally/ethically bankrupt" to "socially/morally/ethically moderate". In repeated previews, I noticed that you truncated even more of your original post.

I will respond to your original post.

Second: This is an instance of the problem I'm talking about. I think there's a big jump from "disagreeing with Romney's morals" to "morally bankrupt" and I don't know how you're making that jump. Nor do I think it's productive.

I do not agree with some of Romney's policies; I made some arguments against his energy policy in a previous thread, for example. I don't think, however, that attacks on his character really get us anywhere.

If you're referring to comments made by i.e. Todd Akin on "legitimate rape", then yes, those were some bizarre comments, and probably don't speak well of him. I don't think, however, that they are relevant to politics.

If or when he attempts to introduce policy that reflects a "legitimate rape" philosophy, that policy can be challenged (and likely shot down). Repeated attempts to introduce such policy can be taken as evidence that Akin (or whoever) is serving as a poor representative, as he is introducing policy that is not in the best interest of the nation. (That's actually a tricky thing to define; sometimes "best interest" hurts. In this particular case, though, the answer is less fuzzy.)


While killing time between returns coming in, some of the talking heads brushed the surface of this. They noted that exit poll questions seem to be reaching some sort of weird consensus over what people claim to be the most concerned about when asked by a pollster. It was the same sort of response everywhere, regardless of political leanings, even though the votes were for different people. When asked questions about politics in a political context, people tell you their most important (political) views. Problem is, a huge swath of the population on both sides of the political spectrum don't see social issues as political. They see them as moral choices. Energy, education, foreign policy, spending, those are political topics to them. Social issues are good/evil moral choices. So, while most of the country will swear up and down their focus is on the economy, their own moral compass won't let them vote for someone who's fiscal, diplomatic, education, etc. policies might be more in line with their own if that person is someone who violates their social values or is part of a party they believe does the same. As cliché as it sounds, the "lesser of two evils" flippant remark is on the right track. It's not just about why you'd vote for X, but also why you'd never vote for Y. Polarization on political issues is in the mind, polarization on social issues is in the heart. This is true on both sides. Social issues don't present compromise as well as budget balancing.

The insidious thing is that people have started answering polls entirely with the "political" answers even though the social answers are more important to them and they either don't realize it, or are afraid to admit it. Wanting to be (or at least seem to be) outside of this 2 party system (and actually have your vote really count for something) is the biggest cause of this.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Emong » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:18 pm

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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby MycathatesyouAMV » Thu Nov 08, 2012 1:46 pm

trythil wrote:
CodeZTM wrote:Actually, I was celebrating progress, not so much who won the damn election. I could give two flying dinos who's president or which side wins, all I care about is them forward marching us towards social equality for all. And until Republicans put up someone who's socially/morally/ethically bankrupt, then I'm putting on my damn party hat when Democrats win some seats or the Presidency. |:>


First off, you edited "socially/morally/ethically bankrupt" to "socially/morally/ethically moderate". In repeated previews, I noticed that you truncated even more of your original post.



Dude...you're trying too hard.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby MimS » Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:26 pm

Debate people \o/ (FYI, not happy for Obama himself, just happy we avoided Romney)
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Athena » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:58 pm

Obama is not a socialist. I should know, *I'm* a socialist, and I have absolutely no belief that Obama ever said he will or has plans to nationalise public education (including higher education), nationalise healthcare, or nationalise vital infrastructure like I really want. I don't believe defense, education, healthcare, or infrastructure are commodities, but instead should be owned and operated in a public trust administrated by the state. They are basic rights established under a social contract and fall under the government's job to "provide for the general welfare." I still believe in a mixed economy, and I believe in representative government where the public votes on how to own and operate noncommodities like mentioned above, but I am still a socialist. I'm a democratic socialist, technically.

Obama, a socialist? Don't make me laugh.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:17 pm

Kionon wrote:Obama, a socialist? Don't make me laugh.

Looking back on the thread, I can't see where anyone said that or even suggested it. ::confused::
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Emong » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:25 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Kionon wrote:Obama, a socialist? Don't make me laugh.

Looking back on the thread, I can't see where anyone said that or even suggested it. ::confused::

I wasn't targeting anyone on this thread. Rather I was thinking of typical right wing accusations against Obama.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Athena » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:45 pm

Emong brought it up, but I wasn't saying anyone in this thread did say that. I've seen it often enough on my facebook newsfeed though...
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Amaterasu » Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:13 pm

Emong wrote:I should probably do my socialist duty here:

http://socialistworker.org/2012/11/01/the-next-president-of-austerity

http://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/does-it-matter-who-wins/

http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=843&issue=136

Or, shortly, calling Obama socialist is not an insult to Obama but to socialism.


But... Glenn Beck told me he's a Socialist-Kenyan-Muslamic-Atheist-Jewish-Nazi-Illuminatii-Communist. The media wouldn't lie, would they!?
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby HalOfBorg » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:47 am

When someone gives their opinion, no matter how much you disagree with them, that doesn't mean they are lying.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Postby Pwolf » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:53 pm

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