Obama Wins!

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Qyot27
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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by Qyot27 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:57 am

The irony was so strong last night I had to keep myself from posting because I feared Murphy's Law would kick in and partially invalidate what I was about to say.

When the projections won it for Obama, immediately the complaints from my parents started about how the Electoral College has overwritten the will of the people and the process is so unfair if he didn't win the popular vote and whatall (taking the time now to note that they are Republicans, or at least my dad is)...and they went to bed. Two hours later...

Granted, I vaguely remember them saying the same thing in 2000 with all the ridiculousness when Gore won the popular vote but lost the College (and we live in Florida, so we had front row seats), and I'm inclined to agree that having a straight popular vote is less contentious on the whole, even though I was happy when the initial EV count was in. But how many do you wanna bet will stand up to defend the Electoral College because it got them Bush, but now talk out the other side of their mouth and started to decry it just because they lost before the popular vote further secured that fact? That's where the irony really was/would have been.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by Jadecavy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:12 am

I wanted Jack Layton to win. :(

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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by Otohiko » Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:42 am

Jadecavy wrote:I wanted Jack Layton to win. :(
We should establish a Canadian Zombie Party. Have all the awesome dead politicians come back.
The Birds are using humanity in order to throw something terrifying at this green pig. And then what happens to us all later, that’s simply not important to them…

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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by BasharOfTheAges » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:06 pm

Qyot27 wrote:The irony was so strong last night I had to keep myself from posting because I feared Murphy's Law would kick in and partially invalidate what I was about to say.

When the projections won it for Obama, immediately the complaints from my parents started about how the Electoral College has overwritten the will of the people and the process is so unfair if he didn't win the popular vote and whatall (taking the time now to note that they are Republicans, or at least my dad is)...and they went to bed. Two hours later...

Granted, I vaguely remember them saying the same thing in 2000 with all the ridiculousness when Gore won the popular vote but lost the College (and we live in Florida, so we had front row seats), and I'm inclined to agree that having a straight popular vote is less contentious on the whole, even though I was happy when the initial EV count was in. But how many do you wanna bet will stand up to defend the Electoral College because it got them Bush, but now talk out the other side of their mouth and started to decry it just because they lost before the popular vote further secured that fact? That's where the irony really was/would have been.
The funny part ends up being, Obama now has the popular vote too, so all the bitching over it was for naught. All the people claiming Romney had it did so before counting CA... the state with the most people voting by a huge margin and the one that's heavily (D).

It really is all about making up your own little world and getting pissed when reality comes a-knockin. It was never really as close as all the news reports made it seem. That was just a naritive to get out the vote and keep people glued to their TVs. And i'm pretty damn impressed at how many people showed up.
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Qyot27
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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by Qyot27 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:34 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:The funny part ends up being, Obama now has the popular vote too, so all the bitching over it was for naught. All the people claiming Romney had it did so before counting CA... the state with the most people voting by a huge margin and the one that's heavily (D).
That's what the 'Two hours later...' part was.
It really is all about making up your own little world and getting pissed when reality comes a-knockin. It was never really as close as all the news reports made it seem. That was just a naritive to get out the vote and keep people glued to their TVs. And i'm pretty damn impressed at how many people showed up.
On the 'own little world' bent, the ghost won't subside so easily. Red-baiting and neo-McCarthyist whinging is now getting into full swing, I'm sure (more than it already was, anyway). I've already seen some of it on another forum I frequent.

I mourn more for the misuse of the word Progressive in these diatribes, though. Not just because it's treating it as being a bad thing, but because they get the actual definition of Progressivism so horrifically wrong. Center-left isn't socialist, and with the current trends it's barely Progressive beyond a couple of notable Congressmen (besides the part where Socialism and Progressivism are distinctly different ideologies anyway). Worse yet, they still seem to agree that Europe knows firsthand what socialism is, but conveniently ignore the part where Europeans laugh whenever right-wingers try to claim the Democrats are socialist.

Not to mention the part where this largely just reaffirmed the status quo - it wasn't a tremendous shift in power: a couple seats in the Senate went Democratic, and Obama won the popular vote by an ~700,000 point margin (and the electoral college handily), but the House is still in Republican control. So unless the Republican commentators on CNN were right and the Right fractures so badly it prevents itself from gaining ground by slipping further into the extremes and suppressing its moderates, we're in pretty much the same position we were in the day before the election.
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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by meleechampion » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:01 pm

Qyot27 wrote:But how many do you wanna bet will stand up to defend the Electoral College because it got them Bush, but now talk out the other side of their mouth and started to decry it just because they lost before the popular vote further secured that fact?
Oh come on, even the repubs can agree Bush was a pretty bad president. :D

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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by HalOfBorg » Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:00 pm

"If you think this countries bad off now, just wait 'till I get through with it!"
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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by Taite » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:37 pm

Romney never had a chance anyhow; best campaign wins. But there's no new loss to the people, both candidates were more of the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uduJu7QRd40

This man could have been in office too. Fuck you America. Ordering my fucking RP sweater today and I'm never taking that shit off.
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OK, serious mode

Post by trythil » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:40 pm

Amaterasu wrote:It's not that I like to see Democrats win, but I LOVE to see Republicans lose.
CodeZTM wrote:Ok, so I haven't been able to properly celebrate anywhere else (my family is CRYING and my facebook people probably wouldn't approve), and I've had to be rather calm about it, so please pardon me for a second.
Taite wrote:Romney never had a chance anyhow; best campaign wins. But there's no new loss to the people, both candidates were more of the same.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uduJu7QRd40

This man could have been in office too. Fuck you America. Ordering my fucking RP sweater today and I'm never taking that shit off.
STOP THAT SHIT.

This is the same problem that many members of the US Senate and House of Representatives have, which I think can summarize as "too much man". There is too much insistence on winning and almost no discussion of the veracity or implications of statements like these:
The issues facing society at all levels are complex interdisciplinary problems that rarely, if ever, come down to a single optimal solution. Societal well-being (health), energy, immigration, foreign policy can all be described in terms of many tradeoffs. (For example: healthy human beings are generally more effective than sick ones; it stands to reason that we could make many aspects of US society better by enforcing good health. But that presents problems in implementation as well as design.) Different people are going to see different tradeoffs as optimal.

You're going to need cooperation and iteration, not antagonism, to figure this one out. You're going to need to be able to monitor the effectiveness of policy changes and be ready to react, working only with small changes and clearly presenting rationale for those changes. The people whose lives are affected by this policy must be willing to engage in the same (or greater) degree of cooperation as those who represent them; policy is nothing if it is ignored.
Poor sportsmanship, while humorous (I've done it a lot), doesn't get us any closer to a government that actually works. It will ensure deadlock, which can be useful in some situations, but I don't think it's the best way forward.

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Re: Obama Wins!

Post by CodeZTM » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:58 pm

Actually, I was celebrating progress, not so much who won the damn election. I could give two flying dinos who's president or which side wins, all I care about is them forward marching us towards social equality for all. And until Republicans put up someone who's socially/morally/ethically bankrupt, then I'm putting on my damn party hat when Democrats win some seats or the Presidency.
Last edited by CodeZTM on Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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