How has the AMV landscape changed?

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby Athena » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:35 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:Ya know... I really don't think that certian people in this thread are qualified to even debate the legalities of anime music videos when they don't even seem to understand that copyright piracy, unless on the scale of organized crime, is a violation of civil law and not criminal law...


This depends on the country. In the US it is a matter of civil law. In Japan, it is now a matter of criminal law. If convicted, you, theoretically, can be sent to prison.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby Chained(E)Studio » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:24 pm

Kionon wrote:Before I respond in detail, just tell me one thing: if you think that AMVs do not fall under fair use, are unethical and illegal, and that you deserve to be considered a criminal, why doesn't your moral compass prevent you from making them?

I disagree strongly with everything you've said, but isn't worth it to argue it with someone who either has no moral compass, or is willing to intentionally violate their own moral compass with such ease.


I just know the difference between right and wrong. I don't support piracy no matter the reason to do it.

Its just in the end we are still distributing it which is why I can't say its fair use because others still gain. Myself, as a person; yes I bought the DVDs I ripped and some music on iTunes to edit too. Then I made something creative with clips, posted it on Youtube, and uploaded onto the Org. I support everyone in this hobby because of its creative value only.

But if I got sued for having a video on Youtube, the Org or any video hosting site. Then went to court and my lawyer fights that its fair use, and maybe I get away with no charges.

Maybe I have to pay a fine.
Chained(E)Studio wrote:So you made an AMV. Yes, you encouraged 59 people to go out and buy the anime or music but you also helped/aided 41 people get it for free. Maybe 41 people isn't a big deal its lower than half, right? Well, think of this as just one AMV. There are thousands of AMVs available online for this to happen.

In what way should I not be fined because that person I went to court with still lost out on those possible 41 purchases. Why shouldn't I be responsible for that. Its not the same as a person who uploads torrents for others to download who knows they are committed piracy. Or an individual who downloads millions of music and movies every month because they are lazy. I support the creative value in this, the fact that I bought the footage to use, but I don't support the right for others to not gain what is rightfully there's through my own actions.

I don't feel it has anything to do with morals.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby AceD » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:45 pm

Kionon wrote:
DJ_Izumi wrote:Ya know... I really don't think that certian people in this thread are qualified to even debate the legalities of anime music videos when they don't even seem to understand that copyright piracy, unless on the scale of organized crime, is a violation of civil law and not criminal law...


This depends on the country. In the US it is a matter of civil law. In Japan, it is now a matter of criminal law. If convicted, you, theoretically, can be sent to prison.
Correct me if i am wrong, but US law is irrelevant, both Japan and the US are signatories to the Berne Convention...a Japanese studio can file a takedown and request there complaint is filed under Japanese law...
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby Athena » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:21 pm

AceD wrote:Correct me if i am wrong, but US law is irrelevant, both Japan and the US are signatories to the Berne Convention...a Japanese studio can file a takedown and request there complaint is filed under Japanese law...


Theoretically, yes. However, if the person is in the US, then Japan must go through the process of extradition. This is unlikely. The United States does not play well with others considering extradition of US citizens, especially when the issue is a civil one under US law as opposed to a criminal one as under Japanese law. More likely the complaint would be filed under US law if we're discussing a source which has been released officially in the US. If we're talking about source which has not been released in the US, then lower US courts have come to conflicting conclusions about how to proceed, which means the it probably depends on which court level the complaint ends up being filed in and how high any appeals process goes.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby DJ_Izumi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:21 pm

Kionon wrote:Theoretically, yes. However, if the person is in the US, then Japan must go through the process of extradition. This is unlikely. The United States does not play well with others considering extradition of US citizens, especially when the issue is a civil one under US law as opposed to a criminal one as under Japanese law. More likely the complaint would be filed under US law if we're discussing a source which has been released officially in the US. If we're talking about source which has not been released in the US, then lower US courts have come to conflicting conclusions about how to proceed, which means the it probably depends on which court level the complaint ends up being filed in and how high any appeals process goes.


Or... That entire point is null because even if piracy is a criminal act in Japan, if the act occurs outside of Japan, the nation's criminal law has no bearing. Ya know, sovereign states and all that? Seriously, no nation extradites individuals to another nation, for an act that occured within it's own nation.

For the same reason, if I murdered a bunch of Japanese tourists, I havn't violated a single Japanese law. I've violated the Canadian Criminal Code and I will face the Canadian criminal justice system. The Japanese government and it's laws have no say because it is something that occured in an entirely different sovereign state.

Seriously guys. SERIOUSLY. Law, an important thing to understand, please try harder to understand it.

It's bad enough that earlier in this thread, people were talking as if plagiarism and copyright violation were somehow the same thing.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby Athena » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:51 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:Or... That entire point is null because even if piracy is a criminal act in Japan, if the act occurs outside of Japan, the nation's criminal law has no bearing. Ya know, sovereign states and all that? Seriously, no nation extradites individuals to another nation, for an act that occured within it's own nation.


False. Have you been following the Julian Assange case? Assange and his lawyers are afraid if he gets extradited from Britain to Sweden, then he might be extradited from Sweden to the United States, because he has been indicted by a grand jury in the US in absentia, even though he wasn't present in the United States at the time of the supposed crime. According to Nicola Roxon, the Attorney General of his country of origin, Australia, if Assange were to return to Australia and the United States were to press for extradition, there are multi-lateral international agreements which would cover discussions. Roxon, as a representative for the Gillard Administration, makes it clear that Australia is very unhappy with the fact that it can't really prevent Britain from extraditing to Sweden and Sweden from extraditing to the United States if those two countries decide on extradition. I think from Roxon's comments that Assange would ultimately not be extradited for the same reasons the United States would not extradite my friend Bob from Texas to Japan, but that doesn't mean it can't happen and that there are not international laws in place which cover it. It can, and there are.

How do you think we get war criminals, or drug/weapons smugglers for crimes they commit in their own home countries?

For the same reason, if I murdered a bunch of Japanese tourists, I havn't violated a single Japanese law. I've violated the Canadian Criminal Code and I will face the Canadian criminal justice system. The Japanese government and it's laws have no say because it is something that occured in an entirely different sovereign state.


The Japanese have every right, based on the same sovereignty, to prosecute you in Japan and call for extradition from Canada. Canada would most likely (almost certainly) refuse to extradite you, but that doesn't mean Japan can't file the paperwork in Japan formally charging you in a Japanese court and demanding your extradition from Canada.

If you ever stepped into a country where Japan and that country have a very strong extradition agreement, no matter how it turned out in Canada, do not collect ¥20,0000, do not pass Go, go directly to Japanese jail.

Seriously guys. SERIOUSLY. Law, an important thing to understand, please try harder to understand it.


Are you seriously talking to me? I've taken many hours of law courses. I am not a lawyer, but I don't want to be, but government, including law, is my area of research. Much of that is international and immigration law, and I studied copyright law based on its intersection with "first amendment" or "freedom of expression" cases.

It's bad enough that earlier in this thread, people were talking as if plagiarism and copyright violation were somehow the same thing.


That wasn't what was said. What was said, and not by me, is they are equally ethically problematic. I, of course, don't agree. But I also don't agree what we do is copyright infringement, and short of a majority of national supreme courts ruling that is is, I probably never will.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Postby Ikore » Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:12 pm

This kind of threads really remind me that nothing has really changed, at least since I'm around.

btw
I think 'Old School' means that you don't color correct the footage and that you just use cuts and fades.

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