How has the AMV landscape changed?

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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MimS
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by MimS » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:34 am

Well, you don't accept "can't" if you want to, I know where the truth is, fact that I do buy animes as much as I can proves it imho.
About the bridge note : I said most of people I was thinking about don't give a fuck about animes which is not my own case so I'm already not walking blinding in their way (and these people always don't understand why we buy since "god we can get it for free on the Internet", yeah but "author's support dude").

Now, if you can afford buy musics, animes, movies or any other media you like, I'm really really glad for you, I wish I could.

But, really, it's getting "personal", I mean when I say "we're all pirates", I was just saying something that could concern (imo again) a lot of people, not necesarily you or me. To put an end on it, I don't think you, Kionon, are a pirate with what you said, I think I am a pirate legally speaking but there is a difference in pirate acts by appreciating the free access to media and pirate acts just 'cause, deep inside us, we think "if I like it, really, I'll buy it asap".

And about the promoting aspect : I did watch animes thanks to AMVs, I did listen to new artists thanks to AMVs, I did buy some of them and I did just download some of them. That's how it is.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Kionon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:01 am

Emong wrote:It makes sense if you're against privatization/commodification/commercialization of common culture and support other means to finance and distribute stuff like music, movies or anime.
I very much am, coming from a literary background where intertexuality demands a certain ability to coopt and transform previous works. We see it first in epic poetry, and later in philosophical discourses, novels, and then into visual art. I consider the commodification off all possible uses of previous works as dangerous and threatening towards the free expression of creativity. This disturbs me greatly. It disturbs me even more when people buy into the idea that transformative works, part of the human experience for thousands of years, should be highly restricted based on a pure profit motive.
I'm not entirely familiar with the legal issues regarding AMVs but applying the fair use category to AMVs sounds, at least intuitively, a bit vague for me too, even if we're not making profit or anything.
Actually, fair use covers transformative works for purposes of literary, creative, or social commentary. I've already expressed how my videos come about and why I feel so compelled to make them. And this is certainly a form of literary commentary for me. I make videos because the combination of the editing and music choice communicates certain ideas and views I have about the original work. This is precisely what fair use is stipulated for. Most people only think in terms of parody, but parody is not the only type of literary or social commentary that one might transform a previous work into. A serious character sketch in video is no less a valid form of commentary than is a parody or comedy video about that character or the series in which they appear. They both have creative, artistic, value that is added and deserves protection. To deny that expression is fundamentally flawed.

I'll consider the conversation closed, MimS, I think we have both had our say in regards to each other.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by JudgeHolden » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:47 am

AMVs are dead ... It's all about Ponies now anyway. :roll:

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by DJ_Izumi » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:02 pm

Ya know... I really don't think that certian people in this thread are qualified to even debate the legalities of anime music videos when they don't even seem to understand that copyright piracy, unless on the scale of organized crime, is a violation of civil law and not criminal law...
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by kyle_m » Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:46 pm

wow nothing changes here lemme say smthng... copyracy blablabla. isn't it clear from long ago that there's nothing so much imposed on us than this absolutely defective and inhumanity matter foreign to any kind of culture than laws brought to serve the laziness and greed of some. what arguments do you need?...oh fuck it, this thread's about LANDSCAPE. sorry wha happened ?

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Kionon » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:35 pm

DJ_Izumi wrote:Ya know... I really don't think that certian people in this thread are qualified to even debate the legalities of anime music videos when they don't even seem to understand that copyright piracy, unless on the scale of organized crime, is a violation of civil law and not criminal law...
This depends on the country. In the US it is a matter of civil law. In Japan, it is now a matter of criminal law. If convicted, you, theoretically, can be sent to prison.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Chained(E)Studio » Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:24 pm

Kionon wrote:Before I respond in detail, just tell me one thing: if you think that AMVs do not fall under fair use, are unethical and illegal, and that you deserve to be considered a criminal, why doesn't your moral compass prevent you from making them?

I disagree strongly with everything you've said, but isn't worth it to argue it with someone who either has no moral compass, or is willing to intentionally violate their own moral compass with such ease.
I just know the difference between right and wrong. I don't support piracy no matter the reason to do it.

Its just in the end we are still distributing it which is why I can't say its fair use because others still gain. Myself, as a person; yes I bought the DVDs I ripped and some music on iTunes to edit too. Then I made something creative with clips, posted it on Youtube, and uploaded onto the Org. I support everyone in this hobby because of its creative value only.

But if I got sued for having a video on Youtube, the Org or any video hosting site. Then went to court and my lawyer fights that its fair use, and maybe I get away with no charges.

Maybe I have to pay a fine.
Chained(E)Studio wrote: So you made an AMV. Yes, you encouraged 59 people to go out and buy the anime or music but you also helped/aided 41 people get it for free. Maybe 41 people isn't a big deal its lower than half, right? Well, think of this as just one AMV. There are thousands of AMVs available online for this to happen.
In what way should I not be fined because that person I went to court with still lost out on those possible 41 purchases. Why shouldn't I be responsible for that. Its not the same as a person who uploads torrents for others to download who knows they are committed piracy. Or an individual who downloads millions of music and movies every month because they are lazy. I support the creative value in this, the fact that I bought the footage to use, but I don't support the right for others to not gain what is rightfully there's through my own actions.

I don't feel it has anything to do with morals.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by AceD » Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:45 pm

Kionon wrote:
DJ_Izumi wrote:Ya know... I really don't think that certian people in this thread are qualified to even debate the legalities of anime music videos when they don't even seem to understand that copyright piracy, unless on the scale of organized crime, is a violation of civil law and not criminal law...
This depends on the country. In the US it is a matter of civil law. In Japan, it is now a matter of criminal law. If convicted, you, theoretically, can be sent to prison.
Correct me if i am wrong, but US law is irrelevant, both Japan and the US are signatories to the Berne Convention...a Japanese studio can file a takedown and request there complaint is filed under Japanese law...

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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by Kionon » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:21 pm

AceD wrote:Correct me if i am wrong, but US law is irrelevant, both Japan and the US are signatories to the Berne Convention...a Japanese studio can file a takedown and request there complaint is filed under Japanese law...
Theoretically, yes. However, if the person is in the US, then Japan must go through the process of extradition. This is unlikely. The United States does not play well with others considering extradition of US citizens, especially when the issue is a civil one under US law as opposed to a criminal one as under Japanese law. More likely the complaint would be filed under US law if we're discussing a source which has been released officially in the US. If we're talking about source which has not been released in the US, then lower US courts have come to conflicting conclusions about how to proceed, which means the it probably depends on which court level the complaint ends up being filed in and how high any appeals process goes.
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Re: How has the AMV landscape changed?

Post by DJ_Izumi » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:21 pm

Kionon wrote:Theoretically, yes. However, if the person is in the US, then Japan must go through the process of extradition. This is unlikely. The United States does not play well with others considering extradition of US citizens, especially when the issue is a civil one under US law as opposed to a criminal one as under Japanese law. More likely the complaint would be filed under US law if we're discussing a source which has been released officially in the US. If we're talking about source which has not been released in the US, then lower US courts have come to conflicting conclusions about how to proceed, which means the it probably depends on which court level the complaint ends up being filed in and how high any appeals process goes.
Or... That entire point is null because even if piracy is a criminal act in Japan, if the act occurs outside of Japan, the nation's criminal law has no bearing. Ya know, sovereign states and all that? Seriously, no nation extradites individuals to another nation, for an act that occured within it's own nation.

For the same reason, if I murdered a bunch of Japanese tourists, I havn't violated a single Japanese law. I've violated the Canadian Criminal Code and I will face the Canadian criminal justice system. The Japanese government and it's laws have no say because it is something that occured in an entirely different sovereign state.

Seriously guys. SERIOUSLY. Law, an important thing to understand, please try harder to understand it.

It's bad enough that earlier in this thread, people were talking as if plagiarism and copyright violation were somehow the same thing.
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