AWA pro thoughts/followups?

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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:40 am

l33tmeatwad wrote:I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just pointing out there has been a lot of "back when...it was better!" As for "wait and see" on it being cheapened, there is no need, I personally feel its cheapened, if you disagree that is fine, I was making no personal attacks.

Lets get one thing straight, I have no problem with pro being exclusive, my problem is Masters being neutered as a result of it.


A lot of people do pull the "back when" card. Honestly, I've not been one to do that. I personally like contests that try and do something unique and make changes and evolve. It's a good way to perfect the contest and make it strong as a result. That being said, I also would prefer to see masters still a separate contest. I've gone back and forth on what I like and didn't like which can be confusing. But in the end I still would like to have pro be exclusive and masters be separate. From a competitor's standpoint it takes away from the exclusivity that being able to submit to masters meant. EDIT: I should also note that not even knowing what your competition looks like had me excited. Nothing sucks more than seeing someone who made a video that's 1000% better than yours and knowing that there's no chance in hell you're going to win. In masters, that doesn't happen until they start showing the finalists at the awards ceremony and you know immediately what kind of game you'll need to bring the next time.

Personally I'd like to see an invitational contest where a committee selects a certain number of individuals to compete. Many creators can throw their hat in the ring and submit a previous winner. Then the committee reviews these qualifying videos and then sends an invitation to a small group to compete in the contest. Videos would need to be exclusive for the contest itself but the qualifying can be the best video in your arsenal. This would require a lot of lead in time though. I don't know how much time one spends on making something that's masters worthy but the participant selection and invites would need to be sent out while keeping that in mind.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:56 am

jingoro wrote:I've been listening to the discussions.

As of now, I'm confident enough to say that we can add mature content (e.g. Jus Talonis) and adult content (e.g. Guro Soup) flags to Pro, for those who would rather avoid such things (or just shoo the kids out of the room). I despise artistic restrictions, and I support informed decisions in what people choose to watch. It's the only compromise that satisfies both needs. Just guys, I have no idea how I'll give any such winner the screening it really deserves. I can't card for the awards ceremony in main, I can't clear VAT for ~5 minutes of video, and I don't think the current "Hour That Does Not Exist", as it currently [doesn't] exists, is the right venue. Those who compete in this fashion are well aware of the disadvantage they're working with, so I leave that part up to them.


When I comes to hentai and adult content I'd like to think those of us who enter know that there's no way it can be played in main programming during normal hours. I've accepted that a long time ago just like I've accepted more recently that not everyone is going to watch hentai amvs because they are disgusted by hentai. Different strokes for different folks. I can live with it being played to a smaller adult-only audience.

I agree with having it in a bigger room. At Acen and Youmacon we usually have about a 75% occupancy for our hentai events. We advertise the events in the program guide AND we've built a rather good reputation for running a fun event over the years. Nate can give you the numbers for youmacon but at Acen we've had a packed room when we could only seat about 100 people and when we had our largest function space in 2011 I think we had close to 120 people out of a possible 250. (However, that was the first year we were moved to a new hotel and almost everyone thought we were still in the Hyatt). I understand the reason for not having anything like that in main programming is due to the higher ups laying down the law. It should be arguable that any room, even one as large as the vat, can play hentai material as long as proper precautions are taken such as a partition preventing the screen from being viewed and having IDs checked. The show Nate, Matt and I run at youmacon and before I left acen were a mix of AMVs and other adult themed humor as well as some games and color commentary, making it a variety show and not just an hamv show drew a much bigger crowd. I'd love to see a hentai iron editor event where we can compete to be top pervert until the next competition.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:33 am

No idea if it's a local law type of thing, but (to follow SailorDeath's post) I've been to another con, larger than AWA that held adult events in main events halls that could hold over 3000 people and posessed a staggeringly large number of entrances and exits that were simply closed for the durration of the event. It's not entirely unheard of.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Sephiroth » Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:53 am

My 2 cents since ive gotten vids pulled from cons due to content in them. If you list it as 18+ that's basically saying send anything. That was one of the big things about pro in the first place. so imagine my annoyance when a video which doesn't even show anything that was funny gets pulled. Milly says dildo which isn't even one of the 7 dirty words and it gets pulled from the contest. After it was already in.

Do not use the MPAA as your bases its done on a case for case bases and really makes no sense and is anti gay/female sexual enjoyment (Watch the doc this film is not yet rated for just how messed up it is) there are PG movies which say the word Fuck, ive seen nudity in PG movies. The entire bases of whats acceptable is in a undefined base, so invariably people are going to submit things that are contrary of that.

I do not want any kind of ban on video which deal with actual sexuality, thats one of the things that i find the most ridiculousness about these things. That you see nothing but you can tell that a women is enjoying herself is somehow offensive yet you can blow up so many people heads skulls whatever and there is no problem. The highest forms of art in alot of our various mediums deal with things like sex. The most popular shows on TV are Dexter, game of thrones, Breaking Bad, and so on. You will see full frontal nudity, people actually enjoying sex, and murder.

likewise anime has things which to western sensibilities are considered offensive. Japans own attempts to censor things lead to the creation of Tentacle porn. If these things to the contests sensibilities are stuff the kids attending the con should not see thats fine. But at the same time don't destroy my ability to make said things by limiting them from the contest. In AWA part of entering had to do with saying that you were 18 and wouldn't mind there being mature contest. And yes there will be people that go for the lowest most offensive thing, but there will also be people that make good stuff with those.

The price you pay for expression and freedom of speech is that there will be things you don't like as a result. But there is bound to be things that you do that other people will not like. And i'm fine with not liking everything if it means that something i really love can come about as a result. Otherwise your putting limits on what people can talk about. Imagine if you banned anything to do with the Hiroshima bomb thats alot of good Drama vids we wont have because its something that may offend people if not handled well. On our side imagine if we banned anything to do with September 11th sure someone can make offensive vids with that material (AMV HELL 0) but you can also use that to make some deep profound points.

Be careful with what you do. AWA is one of the bigger contests and is considered by many to be THE AMV. Whatever is decided will effect other cons. Especially if you want exclusivity for pro.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Lord Rae » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:04 am

I was actually kind of surprised that motherlover that won for best comedy in pro couldn't be screened. There was no nudity, all the audio was bleeped and even the graphics were censored. Add on the fact that the song was from Saturday night live so essentially basic cable friendly (albeit late night) and I was kind of shocked.

I understand that main events is different than the late night blocks and even the vat... but still it came off a bit silly although I know often such decisions are out of the hands of Jingoro and crew.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:54 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:No idea if it's a local law type of thing, but (to follow SailorDeath's post) I've been to another con, larger than AWA that held adult events in main events halls that could hold over 3000 people and possessed a staggeringly large number of entrances and exits that were simply closed for the duration of the event. It's not entirely unheard of.


The issue with adult content has always been obscenity. The problem is obscenity laws are determined by "community standards" and are purposely left vague so they can basically charge you based on how they feel at the time.

I remember in 2010 at acen, while Nate was hosting our adult event I gazed up from the computer screen to see two police officers come into the amv room. I must tell you my initial reaction was to think we've inadvertently done something illegal. I've always had a policy at acen to NOT show anything that contained lolicon anime/manga because I felt that someone might actually complain about that. But we still showed some pretty messed up stuff (incest, scat, guro, bestiality, furries) Luckily the officers were just curious about all the laughter coming from our room and wanted to check it out, but the whole time Nate and I were sweating bullets.

So I can certainly understand why admins might not be keen on vat having hentai amvs. It's something that requires one to know what the local obscenity laws are and how they're interpreted. The ever famous source that was used to make "T-u-b-girl the Anime" is actually illegal to own in some states because, even though it's animated, the source subject is still considered to be scat. (Lol wow really the name of that video filters to "a girl with pretty eyes.") It's actually illegal to host that kind of live action media anywhere in the US. To my knowledge all versions of Night Shift Nurses is censored in the US with the most hardcore scenes edited out. I believe the copies most people find on the internet are from Holland where that kind of porn is legal. (for that same reason there are quite a few lolicon titles released there that are not available here in the US as well.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby drewaconclusion » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:33 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:3) I was encouraged my first year participating to send my best and my understanding of Pro was that you bring your A game with a newer video and let your peers judge it, which is different than most conventions which is audience vote. I was excited to see what my peers thought of my work.
My understanding of pro from reading over the past threads was that the anonymity of the entries was tantamount, so that you could be judged by your peers without any personal bias.

l33tmeatwad wrote:So, going back to my entry from this year, much like last year I sent my newest and best video. I had literally no time from July until the deadline to create anything new that would be substantial, so I sent my newest video that I had worked the hardest on (along with ONE new entry that I rushed to make). Personally I save my best idea of the year for Otakon and work my hardest on it, so I LIKE to send that to Pro because I want to put my best work forward. I don't mind Pro being exclusive, it is just going to force me to work on my Otakon entry more in advance and then save time to work on more entries for AWA.
You could have, you know, sat out of the contest since you didn't have entries in the spirit/rules of the contest.

Mr Pilkington wrote:The google rule would have been awesome! But being the time constraints this year it just wasn't feasible.
Jingoro not only had to take care of the basics, he also had to build the site and everything was a mad-dash. On his part there was just no time. If we keep bitching though, maybe next year....
In general I can forgive if this is the first offense, but you repeat offenders know better and should show a little more respect for the coordinators. Hell, I keep mine from my studio members in the (unlikely) chance they actually edit something.
Fall_Child42 wrote:
l33tmeatwad wrote:people putting a lot of work towards contents like Akross that REQUIRE exclusive videos



This is what I'm saying should happen.
This is what used to happen.

It can easily happen again for Pro.
Fall_Child42 wrote:it's sad.

I really liked pro much better when everyone was under the impression that the videos should be new.
It would take like maybe a couple hours to determine if a video was "new" or not. At least that's how long the "google" rule would take.
Copycat_Revolver wrote:[Oh whatever, I'm posting this. Take it as you will.]

You know what, as far as the exclusivity argument goes, this contest is losing the one thing that makes it special if we at the very least don't strongly encourage new videos. And I'm not putting this on the coordinators solely. I think that if we really want this contest to be what it used to, then we, as editors, need to take charge of this editor judged contest. Yes, that means you, jerk face. We need to contribute original videos, we need to encourage other editors to do the same, and we need to shame the people who just throw in the same tired videos they've already sent to every con in existence.
That's what Expo is for anyway.

l33tmeatwad wrote:Lets get one thing straight, I have no problem with pro being exclusive, my problem is Masters being neutered as a result of it.
Perhaps if people had been paying attention to the precedents/expectations of the contest, we wouldn't even be in need of discussing the topic in the first place.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:44 pm

They do encourage new for the benefit of avoid biastness, but it was not required. I apologise if you were upset with my entry, however I did send a newer video that had only participated in a handful of competitions, and keep in mind that half the contetsts the video placed in happened after the Pro deadline. Additionally I wanted to participate as it is one of few contests that would actually allow it to compete.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:45 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:They do encourage new for the benefit of avoid biastness, but it was not required. I apologise if you were upset with my entry, however I did send a newer video that had only participated in a handful of competitions, and keep in mind that half the contetsts the video placed in happened after the Pro deadline. Additionally I wanted to participate as it is one of few contests that would actually allow it to compete.


Personally I was a bit surprised too that they didn't show it in main during the awards ceremony. I didn't think it was all that dirty.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby kholaras » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:51 pm

Lord Rae wrote:I was actually kind of surprised that motherlover that won for best comedy in pro couldn't be screened. There was no nudity, all the audio was bleeped and even the graphics were censored. Add on the fact that the song was from Saturday night live so essentially basic cable friendly (albeit late night) and I was kind of shocked.


As other people are mentioning, there are few hard-fast rules/guidelines for that kind of thing. Running the computer years ago I made one or two bad judgement calls when given the opportunity that came back to bite me/the department and I've tended to err a little more on the side of caution since. I watched the vid for the first time Friday at Jingoro's request and, not knowing the source or anything else about the vid, I suggested that it not be run in main. Yes, it's censored in both directions, but what good does that do really? It's the implication vs the literal. It DID get run during one of the other blocks Friday I believe (I could pull the player logs but I don't have the energy) with an announced disclaimer but that's the difference between our own room and main. Was it hentai/R content that needed banishment to 4am in a carded room? No. But not something that should (in my opinion, and the fact that Jingoro was even questioning it considering he's got more relaxed standards than I've developed speaks volumes) run in main in the middle of the day either.

We might have erred on the side of caution, but it's hard to take something like that back if you show it and there ARE complaints.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:34 pm

kholaras wrote:As other people are mentioning, there are few hard-fast rules/guidelines for that kind of thing. Running the computer years ago I made one or two bad judgement calls when given the opportunity that came back to bite me/the department and I've tended to err a little more on the side of caution since. I watched the vid for the first time Friday at Jingoro's request and, not knowing the source or anything else about the vid, I suggested that it not be run in main. Yes, it's censored in both directions, but what good does that do really? It's the implication vs the literal. It DID get run during one of the other blocks Friday I believe (I could pull the player logs but I don't have the energy) with an announced disclaimer but that's the difference between our own room and main. Was it hentai/R content that needed banishment to 4am in a carded room? No. But not something that should (in my opinion, and the fact that Jingoro was even questioning it considering he's got more relaxed standards than I've developed speaks volumes) run in main in the middle of the day either.

We might have erred on the side of caution, but it's hard to take something like that back if you show it and there ARE complaints.


Lest we forget the famous "Freakshow" incident that happened back in the early days of amvs.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Rider4Z » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:56 pm

I'm starting to forget why the idea of combining Pro and Masters came up in the first place :uhoh:

Lord Rae wrote:I was actually kind of surprised that motherlover that won for best comedy in pro couldn't be screened. There was no nudity, all the audio was bleeped and even the graphics were censored. Add on the fact that the song was from Saturday night live so essentially basic cable friendly (albeit late night) and I was kind of shocked.

I understand that main events is different than the late night blocks and even the vat... but still it came off a bit silly although I know often such decisions are out of the hands of Jingoro and crew.

just my two cents about this, as stryyder and i are the coordinators for the anime vegas contest, we too decided to DQ Mother's Day Special. personally we both love it and think it's edited amazingly, but the suggestion of little boys "loving" adult women is too extreme a theme for us to allow it in :( and actually, hearing AWA didn't play it either makes me more comfortable about our decision. (and trust me, we debated over it for days cuz we really would love to show it.)
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Brakus » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:44 pm

kholaras wrote:
Lord Rae wrote:I was actually kind of surprised that motherlover that won for best comedy in pro couldn't be screened. There was no nudity, all the audio was bleeped and even the graphics were censored. Add on the fact that the song was from Saturday night live so essentially basic cable friendly (albeit late night) and I was kind of shocked.


As other people are mentioning, there are few hard-fast rules/guidelines for that kind of thing. Running the computer years ago I made one or two bad judgement calls when given the opportunity that came back to bite me/the department and I've tended to err a little more on the side of caution since. I watched the vid for the first time Friday at Jingoro's request and, not knowing the source or anything else about the vid, I suggested that it not be run in main. Yes, it's censored in both directions, but what good does that do really? It's the implication vs the literal. It DID get run during one of the other blocks Friday I believe (I could pull the player logs but I don't have the energy) with an announced disclaimer but that's the difference between our own room and main. Was it hentai/R content that needed banishment to 4am in a carded room? No. But not something that should (in my opinion, and the fact that Jingoro was even questioning it considering he's got more relaxed standards than I've developed speaks volumes) run in main in the middle of the day either.

We might have erred on the side of caution, but it's hard to take something like that back if you show it and there ARE complaints.


I happened to agree with Lord Rae on this one. I first saw this during Otakon pre-screenings, which basically is a bunch of AMV editors getting together on a Saturday to watch all the entries, and we howled with laughter. Otakon had no problems showing it in the contest proper, especially after having this (and all other entries) screened by Otakon's lawyers for content issues and such. The ballot on the back says "Certain videos may contain violent or suggestively sexual scenes, but there is nothing that we couldn't get away with on network television." Otakon's audience is (I guess) different than AWA's audience.... although I'm sure the Russian audience is worlds different, given their online reaction to this video. Go ask l33tm33twad about that story.

I understand that every convention is different, and there's a balancing act about whether to allow certain entries in the contest or not, or whether to screen them in Main Events or not. I just found it unfortunate that we couldn't screen this video at all (?) at the convention.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:51 pm

Just so some of you know, they did allow me to screen it during my creator spotlight. Also, it is the video I mentioned last year at awa when I said "My entry for next year will be bad, expect WRONGNESS!"
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Rider4Z » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:38 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:Just so some of you know, they did allow me to screen it during my creator spotlight. Also, it is the video I mentioned last year at awa when I said "My entry for next year will be bad, expect WRONGNESS!"

and that's the whole point and what makes it so funny :ying: plus of course... dbz. rock on meatwad :up:
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