AWA pro thoughts/followups?

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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Mr Pilkington » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:34 pm

I guess the question that should be asked, is there anyone vehemently opposed to having adult content in Pro?
Especially now that we're several generations from the VHS days and videos with offensive content can be skipped at the discretion of the viewer.



It's a lot of work, but there is a "cake and eat it too" sort of option. Since the biggest reason to remove adult content from pro was the distribution to minors, have all "R" or less content available on the torrents, but any applicable adult entries available as a download with password only provided to those who are of age and/or generated on a person-person basis. It handicaps the entry (which from the masters standpoint changes nothing) but, if that video is strong enough on it's own, shouldn't prove terribly challenging. That would also warrant removal of the "gimme" adult prize in pro. All of the above I would personally be in favor of. Granted I'm obviously the voice of support for adult content.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby The Wired Knight » Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:41 pm

Mr Pilkington wrote:Granted I'm obviously the. . .adult content.


:awesome:

That said I'm fine either way, the only problem I see is that some people object to watching the content at all (regardless of age) so what you have is a much smaller voting pool than before that is heavily skewed. So it;s not just about eliminating minors (which I doubt there are many anyway) but who WILL watch and vote on those videos? Additionally, how many are needed for the catagory to support itself? If there are only two or three entires then it's still a gimme award even structured as such.

I'm not against having it, hell I run a con that practically relies on it. but I am concerned about how many people would enter and how many would actually watch all the ones entered.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Rider4Z » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:52 pm

Mr Pilkington wrote:I guess the question that should be asked, is there anyone vehemently opposed to having adult content in Pro?
Especially now that we're several generations from the VHS days and videos with offensive content can be skipped at the discretion of the viewer.

Blatantly obvious sexual scenes/innuendos/positions make me uncomfortable. There was a video entered either last year or the year before that was to (i think) Bible Black, there was nothing specifically shown but i turned it off maybe a quarter into it.

Videos like Jus Talionis are different. the scenario was serious and not aphrodisiac aimed. I'm fine with an "R" rating, but not "X" or "NC-17".

sorry to be the prude of the group. you can blame it on religious reasons :P
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:48 pm

Rider4Z wrote:Blatantly obvious sexual scenes/innuendos/positions make me uncomfortable. There was a video entered either last year or the year before that was to (i think) Bible Black, there was nothing specifically shown but i turned it off maybe a quarter into it.

Videos like Jus Talionis are different. the scenario was serious and not aphrodisiac aimed. I'm fine with an "R" rating, but not "X" or "NC-17".

sorry to be the prude of the group. you can blame it on religious reasons :P


Not a problem really, I mean I too understand that there are a lot of people who don't like hentai amvs and skip them. Voting has always been skewed for those videos. But just like Pilk and most of CBR we enjoy making hentai amvs and for us pro is the only competition that allowed hentai to compete with everything else and when hentai wins something other than the adult "gimme" award it actually means a lot. I know it meant a lot for me to win comedy with 3D and the EP. I also love the fact that it's considered a staple hentai amv at some cons along with videos like Money Shot and Prison Bitch.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby drewaconclusion » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:03 pm

Rider4Z wrote:
Mr Pilkington wrote:I guess the question that should be asked, is there anyone vehemently opposed to having adult content in Pro?
Especially now that we're several generations from the VHS days and videos with offensive content can be skipped at the discretion of the viewer.

Blatantly obvious sexual scenes/innuendos/positions make me uncomfortable. There was a video entered either last year or the year before that was to (i think) Bible Black, there was nothing specifically shown but i turned it off maybe a quarter into it.

Videos like Jus Talionis are different. the scenario was serious and not aphrodisiac aimed. I'm fine with an "R" rating, but not "X" or "NC-17".

sorry to be the prude of the group. you can blame it on religious reasons :P
Why not just add a suffix to the file name of each hentai video (such as [H]), that way, those who object to such material will have forewarning and can just avoid it? Seems like a simple enough solution to me to take care of both issues.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:43 pm

drewaconclusion wrote:
l33tmeatwad wrote:Then I would prefer to make 3 new videos, one for master and two for pro :P

I find this statement rather hilarious. Especially considering you've consistently entered videos that were very obviously premiered before AWA pro, nevermind the fact that they'd won multiple awards before AWA.

Sigh...I suppose I should state my opinion on EVERYTHING to not get misunderstood through all of this...

1) I wasn't really a supporter for exclusive videos for Pro on Masters years because I felt it would hurt either Pro or Masters (which it did).
2) I was never AGAINST exclusive for the contest, I just don't think it should be on years that Masters happens.
3) I was encouraged my first year participating to send my best and my understanding of Pro was that you bring your A game with a newer video and let your peers judge it, which is different than most conventions which is audience vote. I was excited to see what my peers thought of my work.
4) With Pro changed to exclusive, I would STILL rather Masters be separate and not an "addon" award in the pool of Pro videos (which kinda kills part of the challenge). To me, Masters is all about taking that gamble to be the one possible winner out of the pool of videos that could be anywhere from 2-9001 entries...choosing Masters over Pro for a new video is a gamble (when it comes to your chances for winning) and I think it makes it more fun.

So, going back to my entry from this year, much like last year I sent my newest and best video. I had literally no time from July until the deadline to create anything new that would be substantial, so I sent my newest video that I had worked the hardest on (along with ONE new entry that I rushed to make). Personally I save my best idea of the year for Otakon and work my hardest on it, so I LIKE to send that to Pro because I want to put my best work forward. I don't mind Pro being exclusive, it is just going to force me to work on my Otakon entry more in advance and then save time to work on more entries for AWA.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Rider4Z » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:59 pm

drewaconclusion wrote:Why not just add a suffix to the file name of each hentai video (such as [H]), that way, those who object to such material will have forewarning and can just avoid it? Seems like a simple enough solution to me to take care of both issues.

doesn't bother me, but wouldn't that ultimately skew the vote?
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby Mr Pilkington » Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:26 pm

Rider4Z wrote:
drewaconclusion wrote:Why not just add a suffix to the file name of each hentai video (such as [H]), that way, those who object to such material will have forewarning and can just avoid it? Seems like a simple enough solution to me to take care of both issues.

doesn't bother me, but wouldn't that ultimately skew the vote?

That will make it slightly more difficult to win, but by less than 10% assuming the video is good. Some people just don't mind the challenge and loss of some votes is a given either way
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:44 am

l33tmeatwad wrote:Sigh...I suppose I should state my opinion on EVERYTHING to not get misunderstood through all of this...

1) I wasn't really a supporter for exclusive videos for Pro on Masters years because I felt it would hurt either Pro or Masters (which it did).
2) I was never AGAINST exclusive for the contest, I just don't think it should be on years that Masters happens.
3) I was encouraged my first year participating to send my best and my understanding of Pro was that you bring your A game with a newer video and let your peers judge it, which is different than most conventions which is audience vote. I was excited to see what my peers thought of my work.
4) With Pro changed to exclusive, I would STILL rather Masters be separate and not an "addon" award in the pool of Pro videos (which kinda kills part of the challenge). To me, Masters is all about taking that gamble to be the one possible winner out of the pool of videos that could be anywhere from 2-9001 entries...choosing Masters over Pro for a new video is a gamble (when it comes to your chances for winning) and I think it makes it more fun.


1) What proof do you have of this happening? To date not ONCE has AWA had exclusivity in pro. It's been "strongly suggested" they be original but 2013 is going to be the first year it's exclusive. The whole trolling issue hasn't even come up until a couple of years ago because everybody else actually followed that suggestion.

2) But then on one side it means everyone will work harder trying to get that jacket. Plus 2 attempts to win it.

3) While it is encouraged to send your best, it's also encouraged to send something new as well. As for voting well I've had problems with voting ever since I found out that lots of friends would coordinate and then tend to vote for each other. But then there's no REAL way to prevent that from happening. I've never brought it up because, well what good would it do?

4) I agree on that to an extent, I did like the fact that masters was a different pool where you have 1 winner and x losers. At the same time, if I had 3 good videos and could only enter 1 into masters I'd have to gamble on which I thought would have the strongest chance to win and enter the other 2 to pro. This year I entered The circle of thug life to pro over Cat Herding because I thought it stood a better chance of getting nominated and boy was I wrong on that.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:47 am

SailorDeath wrote:1) What proof do you have of this happening? To date not ONCE has AWA had exclusivity in pro. It's been "strongly suggested" they be original but 2013 is going to be the first year it's exclusive. The whole trolling issue hasn't even come up until a couple of years ago because everybody else actually followed that suggestion.

2) But then on one side it means everyone will work harder trying to get that jacket. Plus 2 attempts to win it.

The fact that masters was kinda "absorbed" by Pro IMO is a way in which one of the two contests was "hurt" IMO. You also can't blanket statement saying "everyone will try harder"...you can't prove that...and the fact that everyone gets "2 chances" cheapens the challenge as well, thus HURTING it IMO.
SailorDeath wrote:3) While it is encouraged to send your best, it's also encouraged to send something new as well. As for voting well I've had problems with voting ever since I found out that lots of friends would coordinate and then tend to vote for each other. But then there's no REAL way to prevent that from happening. I've never brought it up because, well what good would it do?

4) I agree on that to an extent, I did like the fact that masters was a different pool where you have 1 winner and x losers. At the same time, if I had 3 good videos and could only enter 1 into masters I'd have to gamble on which I thought would have the strongest chance to win and enter the other 2 to pro. This year I entered The circle of thug life to pro over Cat Herding because I thought it stood a better chance of getting nominated and boy was I wrong on that.

You have your opinions and I have mine when it comes to Pro. You act as if your opinion on the matter is superior because you've perhaps participated longer. As it was said many times, it was never one way or the other, it's OUR contest and we had the option to work it however we wanted to with our voting privileges.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby SailorDeath » Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:29 am

l33tmeatwad wrote:The fact that masters was kinda "absorbed" by Pro IMO is a way in which one of the two contests was "hurt" IMO. You also can't blanket statement saying "everyone will try harder"...you can't prove that...and the fact that everyone gets "2 chances" cheapens the challenge as well, thus HURTING it IMO.


Neither can you actually prove it will cheapen the contest. The only way this is going to work itself out is to let it happen and view the results.


l33tmeatwad wrote:You have your opinions and I have mine when it comes to Pro. You act as if your opinion on the matter is superior because you've perhaps participated longer. As it was said many times, it was never one way or the other, it's OUR contest and we had the option to work it however we wanted to with our voting privileges.


Please please please for the life of all that is holy explain where I'm actually stating my opinion is superior to everyone else's because I sure as hell am having a hard time finding the remark where I said I'm older and edited longer so my opinion is better. That comment of yours felt like it was meant to be hurtful. For the sake of not derailing the thread keep your commentary constructive to some extent and leave the personal attacks offline.

I don't believe my opinions are better. However I will argue my point of view so that Jingoro and the rest of the AWA staff can get a good idea of the pros and cons of how to run their contest, because ultimately they don't have to give two shits about what we think and can go ahead and do whatever they want. Trust me, I know because I ran one at Acen and while I did take many considerations and suggestions from the participants into consideration I also outright objected to some. I've experimented with something different each year and the rules constantly evolved. There wasn't a single year where we didn't make some kind of change to how things are run. Sometimes these changes work, sometimes they don't but the important thing is to always be testing out new ideas.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:10 am

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm just pointing out there has been a lot of "back when...it was better!" As for "wait and see" on it being cheapened, there is no need, I personally feel its cheapened, if you disagree that is fine, I was making no personal attacks.

Lets get one thing straight, I have no problem with pro being exclusive, my problem is Masters being neutered as a result of it.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:17 am

If you want more risk, you can voulenteer to have a finger cut off if you don't win. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:18 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:If you want more risk, you can voulenteer to have a finger cut off if you don't win. I don't think anyone would have a problem with that.

Awesome constructive suggestion :roll:
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Re: AWA pro thoughts/followups?

Postby jingoro » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:25 am

I've been listening to the discussions.

As of now, I'm confident enough to say that we can add mature content (e.g. Jus Talonis) and adult content (e.g. Guro Soup) flags to Pro, for those who would rather avoid such things (or just shoo the kids out of the room). I despise artistic restrictions, and I support informed decisions in what people choose to watch. It's the only compromise that satisfies both needs. Just guys, I have no idea how I'll give any such winner the screening it really deserves. I can't card for the awards ceremony in main, I can't clear VAT for ~5 minutes of video, and I don't think the current "Hour That Does Not Exist", as it currently [doesn't] exists, is the right venue. Those who compete in this fashion are well aware of the disadvantage they're working with, so I leave that part up to them.

My thought with Pro/Masters was simply since every Pro video now would have qualified for Masters, why not let these entries compete. Especially since I expected that requiring exclusive content for Pro would reduce the exclusive content available for Masters and might seriously hurt Masters. I also didn't want to make everyone wait until 2014 (the next off-year for Masters) for an exclusive Pro.

The problem I'm seeing is the start of the kind of view that Masters is "just Jingoro's Pro Vote". That's destroying the perception of Masters, and I can't allow that. It devalues the awards Masters has given in the past. I had toyed with the idea of making Masters either an opt-out (my preference) or an opt-in checkbox during the pro submission process, but now I'm more inclined to admit I made a mistake in this, and keep Masters separate after all. Thankfully, I generally don't post rules until January, and I've got time to think about this. PMs and emails appreciated if you don't want to discuss your thoughts publicly.
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