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Pwolf
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Re: Politics

Post by Pwolf » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:45 pm

I'm registered independent. I could really care less if a candidate is Republican or Democrat though, I look at their policies and wither or not I feel like they could actually act on the things they say. Which works two ways, first, if I feel like they will act on a policy i like or don't like, or i feel like they can't/wont act on a policy i do like. I voted for Obama 4 years ago and most likely will again this year (not terribly enthusiastic about it). Personally I think our whole political system is fucked up to begin with. I'd like to see campaign funding reduced and allow people who aren't rich/have rich friends have a much larger presence.

As far as voting, I've made it a personal "mission" to actively vote. I feel like it's my duty as a citizen wither or not I 100% agree with all the policies of the person I vote for. I do look at it as the "lesser evil" and I'm ok with that but I can understand if someone would rather just not vote in that case *cough* George, you lazy bum... I keed, i keed :-* On a serious note though, I would much rather people have a good reason for not voting, like George, then having a stupid excuse like being lazy, like George (i wanna play DayZ D:).

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Radical_Yue
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Re: Politics

Post by Radical_Yue » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 pm

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I know a whole lotta nothing about politics and have yet to vote ._. I should look into that one of these days...

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aesling
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Re: Politics

Post by aesling » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:53 pm

Fall_Child42 wrote:Quoted Image converted to link:
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp19 ... oticon.gif
This explains all politics.
This. I find most political debate to be completely obnoxious because people have usually made up their minds already, so discussing it accomplishes nothing. There is definitely some nuanced discussion going on here, but I get really tired of friends from both parties spouting hyperbole all over the place for the better part of a year.
:ying:

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Brad
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Re: Politics

Post by Brad » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:38 pm

According to http://www.ISideWith.com, I am 87% in line with the politics of Barack Obama, 86% with the Green party candidate, Jill Stein, and 36% with Mitt Romney.

Sadly enough, my stance on politics is knowingly in the camp of ignorance. I realize the importance of an informed and educated populace, but by my own hypocrisy, I don't take the time to get to know my politicians. I think this does stem from some of the problems that George talked about. I tend to feel like, in this day and age at least, political leaders tend to lead more to disappointment than anything else. It's the whole lesser evils argument. I remember back in 2004, it was especially heated that everybody go out and vote because George W Bush was so vehemently hated, and that it didn't matter who replaced him. Sorry, but John Kerry did not impress me in the slightest (neither did Bush). So it was like the South Park episode. Douche or a Turd Sandwich. Not a decision I was interested in making. But on the other side of the coin, there ARE other candidates out there who may actually be legitimate great choices for president (at least based on my own ideals) that people don't bother voting for because "there's no point. It's going to be a democrat or a republican." Which, is undeniably true. But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

So yeah, I don't really know what to say on the matter. I'm just not educated enough (by my own fault) to have a legitimate and meaningful discussion about the issues at hand. Sad, but true.
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Re: Politics

Post by trythil » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:43 pm

Taite wrote: There were always very few subjects I agreed with him upon (main one I do agree with is his stance on energy production in the US, which he mentioned at the RNC tonight, though I have to do more research on that).
Why do you agree with his stance? I think his energy policy has some holes in it, especially with regard to his very strong assertions about the failure of wind and solar power generation.
Taite wrote:Still educating myself on the political world, but I'm incredibly interested in it and am particularly passionate about the lack of young adults' attention for it. Quite annoying really.
I find it annoying too.

I want to find a way to turn that apathy into hatred. Real hatred. I then want to combine that hatred with the will to execute and direct it towards politicians. (Might as well get some lawyers in the trawl, too.) They may still not listen, but they'll at least cower away. (Historically, that has worked in the US.) There's one big problem with my plan, which is dealing with police and military forces; I'm still trying to figure out a way around that obstacle.

That isn't the utopian scenario in which everyone listens to everyone and we make progress regardless of disagreements, but it's good enough for me. No, it probably won't improve productivity or problem-solving in this country, but -- just as it is satisfying to kill pests in your home -- it will be immensely satisfying. Well, until the American Napoleon comes around.

You can probably tell that I am disgusted at the parasites involved in the political dysfunction we call a "process". (And they are parasites, the worst sort of opportunistic ones. Why else would Obama turn the recent successes of Curiosity into a victory for "American knowhow and ingenuity"? "Americans" in abstract don't deserve to bathe in that glory. You do not deserve that glory -- well, unless you worked on Curiosity -- and neither do I. The Mars Curiosity team deserves it.)

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Re: Politics

Post by trythil » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:56 pm

Part 2.

Despite my pro-assassination stance above, I do love to see local action. ("Local" meaning neighborhood and city level -- where people can actually make a difference.) I love the idea of people cleaning up their homes, lawns, neighborhoods, helping each other balance their checkbooks, teaching skills, and acting in quorum to solve bigger issues that one person simply cannot solve alone.

My anger, then, is really about the problems of doing all of this at the state/provincial or federal levels. Those levels are too big, too abstract and too slow to effectively respond on that basis. And yet that's where the discussion always seems to go.

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Re: Politics

Post by Shin-AMV » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:13 pm

I'm a liberal. Pretty left on most issues. I'd probably be called a filthy socialist with European ideas. Incredibly un-murican, I know. Its k though. If I had to associate with a political party it'd probably be the democrats.

I am actually really interested in politics (when it comes to the actual issues that is) and keep fairly informed and up to date on the majority of issues, but rarely discuss or debate it. I like to giggle when people regurgitate only the talking points (lol Fox News/MSNBC) as if they were informed (OMG elitist, I know, I'm sorry D:). I don't bother arguing with people though because the majority of the time they've made up their mind and they're going to pick and choose whatever set of facts/data/imagination/reality they want. Rationality is relative, and it'd be the equivalent of trying to convince a 5 year old that they don't need a night light because there isn't a monster in the closet or under the bed, and even if there was a monster, that night light wouldn't keep him/her any safer. To be fair though, there are positions I take based more on emotion and feeling despite the empirical data that cites otherwise or contradicts it. To each their own though.

I completely understand the sentiment though that people think politics its dumb, annoying, or worthless, because the majority of politics has turned into a silly circus fueled by the money of corporations and wealthy individuals to try to brand or paint the other party as some kind of negative image while maintaining theirs as some defender of justice. It'll probably be a generation before things get turned around though :/
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Re: Politics

Post by Emong » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:59 pm

I usually vote for a party rather than a specific candidate. I'm fine with not having anyone or any party to vote for with whom I'd agree with everything. It's enough that the general line of thought fits mine. In the previous parliamentary elections (here in Finland) I voted for the Left Coalition but I'm regretting this since my vote was strategical rather than genuine. Although TLC leans to the "left" the most amongst the parties in the parliament they are not anti-capitalist. In the next elections I'll probably be voting for the Communists in spite of their pathetic poll ratings.

My problem with parliamentary politics is that it doesn't allow for any radical politics proper. I was following panels during the last parliamentary elections here and they were depressing to watch. Nobody even dares to mention words like "capitalism" or "class" (let alone "working class"). Everybody agrees on the imperative of economic growth. Paraphrasing Slavoj Zizek, it's as if we have the basic rules of the game; let's just provide a little bit more welfare, tolerance and so on. The most radical vision the parliamentary left has here is that of "capitalism with a human face". Radical politics proper simply disappears. And during the last presidential elections here even the right/left opposition seemed to disappear (in favor of the right). We basically had two liberal-capitalist candidates. The main difference between them was that the first seemed to be more in favor of green and liberal values (he was also openly gay) and the other appealed more to the conservative population.

But on the other hand I see that the biggest problems of our time is more systemic than anything. Of course, parliamentary politics is corrupted* (although the situation here is not nearly as worse as in the US), but on the other hand the big problems of our time (crises of capitalism, global warming, inequality etc.) aren't going to be solved by parliamentary games alone. Here I am a traditional leftist in favor of revolutionary politics, which in my mind doesn't simply mean taking power but transforming or abolishing existing social institutions. How do we get there or how long this process is going to be is beyond me. I don't know.

*Although, to be fair, people's (mis)trust for politicians probably also fluctuates with general socio-economic conditions, irrespective of how corrupted or competent politicians actually are. This is my guess, I haven't really looked into this.

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inthesto
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Re: Politics

Post by inthesto » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:05 pm

Brad wrote:According to http://www.ISideWith.com, I am 87% in line with the politics of Barack Obama, 86% with the Green party candidate, Jill Stein, and 36% with Mitt Romney.
Did this one a few days ago, scored 91% with Stein, 72% Obama, 56% Anderson (who?), 23% Paul (ugh), and 2% Romney (no surprise).

Funny thing is, if you poll people on an issue-by-issue basis without mentioning parties, the Green Party turns out to have the most popular platform.
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Taite
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Re: Politics

Post by Taite » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:32 pm

trythil wrote:Why do you agree with his stance? I think his energy policy has some holes in it, especially with regard to his very strong assertions about the failure of wind and solar power generation.
I'm for becoming energy independent. I think this is probably the most crucial thing if we ever wanted to get back up on our feet. My dad can go on forever quite eloquently about the issue, but I tend to stumble over it all because I'm just scatterbrained when I'm trying to explain something verbally that is so complex as energy. It's a pretty tough issue, including climate and environment (which goes in with energy a lot), to lay down a solid stance on.


Here are some quotes from Romney's Energy Policy from the 23rd. I've yet to delve too much into it (God knows what other things could be in there) but it does a good job at the start of lining out its benefits:
*More than three million new jobs, including over one million in manufacturing;
*An economic resurgence adding more than $500 billion to GDP;
*A stronger dollar and a reduced trade deficit;
*More than $1 trillion in revenue for federal, state, and local governments;
*Lower energy prices for job creators and middle-class families; and
*National security strengthened by freedom from dependence on foreign energy supplies.
His plan:
*Empower states to control onshore energy development;
*Open offshore areas for energy development;
*Pursue a North American Energy Partnership;
*Ensure accurate assessment of energy resources;
*Restore transparency and fairness to permitting and regulation; and
*Facilitate private-sector-led development of new energy technologies.
However, I'm quite aware of Romney's flip-flopping on the issue, especially concerning renewable energy. Believe it was in '07 that he was pretty green, liked the idea of solar and wind powered energy, and cap-and-trade. Now he's almost completely opposite. He's still for nuclear, bio-diesel, and ethanol however.

It would take many years to become energy independent on any politician's plan, including Romney's. However, energy independence is a stable idea and vital to the US, in my opinion.



@Kionon - I've been reading more about Gary Johnson after seeing him at the RNC, oddly enough. I tend to agree with most Libertarian policies and am particularly pleased with Johnson's take on foreign policy. Not as severe as Paul's take, which I favor, but still better than Romney. Nevertheless I think a good enough reason to vote for Johnson is so the Libertarian party gets those federal matching funds.
Shin-AMV wrote:I like to giggle when people regurgitate only the talking points (lol Fox News/MSNBC) as if they were informed (OMG elitist, I know, I'm sorry D:)..
Pretty much. Fox and MSN are probably the worst of them all as well. It's hard not to get a biased story, but if you're going to talk like you know a lot about it, you probably want to research it rather than just repeat the words of one main article.
DrudgeReport really is my favorite though :nose:
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