The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesign)

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GloryQuestor
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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by GloryQuestor » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:50 pm

Let's be fair, the admins have been open with you about a lot of things:

- The front page has the last thing that was announced, which was the forum reorganization. That was announced, it was finished, and it wasn't that long ago.

[GloryQuestor - Redacted and discussion moved. pwolf is right - should not have been mentioned.]

- As I mentioned, we are all very approachable and open to anyone who wants to talk. Kariudo is around here a lot doing his job as Forum Administrator, and I do respond to requests when you direct them at me to answer.

Since everything above seems like a pretty open approach, what is it you are not seeing that is "open" and "transparent"? I mean, are we going to open the floodgates of what the administrators do day-to-day? Not really. You have to earn your way to that responsibility, as my back story will tell you. I didn't get to this point right away, I got here after years of being with the organization and fostering relationships with a lot of the people who have been administrating before I did. What else is a community base for, if it is not to meet others that share the same interests? What is it that you want to see that isn't being seen or acknowledged?
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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by Radical_Yue » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:21 pm

I was at work so I couldn't respond right away but I guess I'll be making it a point to tell you what to post on the page that only you have access to for now on.

Didn't know that was my job in the first place, but sure, I'm up for the challenge.

This still doesn't fix the issue from the other night. It's just making it worse.

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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by I Fight For The Users » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:23 pm

Hi,

Before fisticuffs, I just want to say that it's good that this is finally getting some press. Management of the historical record isn't necessary; we have all the facts preserved elsewhere.

Also, I have not been working on the .org codebase for a couple of days, because I need some time to clear my head. I have instead been doing hanging reverse ab crunches, pull-ups, piston squats, and playing Symphony, which -- aside from some game design issues that the developers are working on -- is a really fun music game. It's on Steam for $9.99. Advertisements.

Kotaku has a video of the game using Call Me Maybe if you're interested.

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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by Shin-AMV » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:45 pm

GloryQuestor wrote: Since everything above seems like a pretty open approach, what is it you are not seeing that is "open" and "transparent"?
I think one of the issues stems from taking a really passive approach to the community. Being open and willing to talk/interact with community members isn't the same as actively approaching and expanding the userbase, or promoting and fixing the Org. Most people hardly know that there is an IRC chat, and even when they do they have no idea what IRC is.

Also being in a position of authority or of importance makes it difficult for new users to even approach someone. It'd really help just to see the admins/mods posting more casually a lot of the times, commenting in the announcement threads, or taking part in the general discussion forum that shows they're community members that care and are willing to approach and encourage people. Being tucked away in the IRC chat feels like its some strange cabal where strange machinations happen.

Basically, be more proactive and don't wait for people to come to you or even come to the site. I'm not saying start PMing everyone, but do more things that encourage people to come to the Org and stay on the Org. Youtube has a pretty expansive network of editors out there and we really need to reach out to them and figure out ways to accomodate them. We don't need to make them choose between youtube or the Org, but make the Org feel more relevant to them as an AMV editor and make the Org feel accessible as a community. Moderators/Admins that are highly visible and active on the forums goes a long way to show that there is structure and security.

We don't have to be like youtube either, but it just seems like there is some fear of change so there is a little bit of talk on what needs to get fixed, but then there isn't a strong follow up and seeming resistance on basic things that need to be changed and then 2 years later we are at the exact same point just with slightly altered forum subsections. :/
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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by GloryQuestor » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Shin-AMV wrote:Basically, be more proactive and don't wait for people to come to you or even come to the site. I'm not saying start PMing everyone, but do more things that encourage people to come to the Org and stay on the Org. Youtube has a pretty expansive network of editors out there and we really need to reach out to them and figure out ways to accomodate them. We don't need to make them choose between youtube or the Org, but make the Org feel more relevant to them as an AMV editor and make the Org feel accessible as a community. Moderators/Admins that are highly visible and active on the forums goes a long way to show that there is structure and security.

We don't have to be like youtube either, but it just seems like there is some fear of change so there is a little bit of talk on what needs to get fixed, but then there isn't a strong follow up and seeming resistance on basic things that need to be changed and then 2 years later we are at the exact same point just with slightly altered forum subsections. :/
You weren't the first to make that proposal, but I definitely want to make sure it gets a serious discussion. That will be a topic on our next administration meeting. :)

EDIT: I should also mention a bit about why the site really hasn't been made that user-friendly for people. As I revealed in the interview, this site's code bedrock is pretty old and inflexible. The site was written at the time to achieve the original goal: "To create a website where every AMV ever created can be archived". The community-based elements were only added in the following years because they eventually became needed when the community around the site began to congregate and evolve. Unfortunately, the site has hit the wall--it continues to be a touch-and-go operation to even maintain and modify simple things right now. Heck, we can't even add new FAQs because they are hard-integrated with the site. So, at least from the site-side, much as I would love to see newer and more innovative hooks for newcomers to the site, there's really not much that can be done until the redesign is fully finished.

So, much as we would want to make the site more inviting for newcomers, it will probably be up to all of us who are here to eventually teach the newcomers how the site works. Even though we had started a marketing strategy (with business-style cards handed out at AMV rooms & events at conventions), we're going to discuss how to move that strategy to the next level.
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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by Fall_Child42 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:12 pm

I have an idea.

I know that every so often there are mod/admin meetings.
I know that people all across the .org are chomping at the bit to get some more information about what the administrators are doing to help the website and the community.

Why doesn't the meeting take place in a slightly more public venue, like an IRC room that users can sit in on?
Much like a court room or many governmental discussions we, if we are interested enough, can sit in on the meeting and find out exactly what is going on. If nothing is going on, or what is going on is incredibly boring, we find that out as well.

The only argument I can see against it is "what about trolls?"
Well that's an easy fix. The audience watching the proceedings do not need to talk, nor should they, so you just make the room moderated (+m) so only people with voice can speak.

I think having a public forum for the administrators to discuss site matters that is open and accessible to the general public would do alot to inform the users about what's going on, and lessen the frustration that some of us are feeling at not being able to see anything get done.
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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by RAWdangers » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:18 pm

Fall_Child42 wrote:I have an idea.

I know that every so often there are mod/admin meetings.
I know that people all across the .org are chomping at the bit to get some more information about what the administrators are doing to help the website and the community.

Why doesn't the meeting take place in a slightly more public venue, like an IRC room that users can sit in on?
Much like a court room or many governmental discussions we, if we are interested enough, can sit in on the meeting and find out exactly what is going on. If nothing is going on, or what is going on is incredibly boring, we find that out as well.

The only argument I can see against it is "what about trolls?"
Well that's an easy fix. The audience watching the proceedings do not need to talk, nor should they, so you just make the room moderated (+m) so only people with voice can speak.

I think having a public forum for the administrators to discuss site matters that is open and accessible to the general public would do alot to inform the users about what's going on, and lessen the frustration that some of us are feeling at not being able to see anything get done.
DEMOCRACY!!! :up: not really, but its a start d(>.<)b i like this idea.

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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by TritioAFB » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:40 pm

Nice to see again words from one of the admins. Good read :up:
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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by meleechampion » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:56 pm

Fall_Child42 wrote:I have an idea.

I know that every so often there are mod/admin meetings.
I know that people all across the .org are chomping at the bit to get some more information about what the administrators are doing to help the website and the community.

Why doesn't the meeting take place in a slightly more public venue, like an IRC room that users can sit in on?
Much like a court room or many governmental discussions we, if we are interested enough, can sit in on the meeting and find out exactly what is going on. If nothing is going on, or what is going on is incredibly boring, we find that out as well.

The only argument I can see against it is "what about trolls?"
Well that's an easy fix. The audience watching the proceedings do not need to talk, nor should they, so you just make the room moderated (+m) so only people with voice can speak.

I think having a public forum for the administrators to discuss site matters that is open and accessible to the general public would do alot to inform the users about what's going on, and lessen the frustration that some of us are feeling at not being able to see anything get done.
This. So much this.

Yeah, less about a "democracy" and just more about some transparency.

I'd be all for sitting in on some meetings, even if during them I don't have a voice. I can't see ANY reasons why you'd want to keep things (on this particular subject, at least) behind closed doors.

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Re: The Lip Flapper: Volume 28 - GloryQuestor (Site Redesig

Post by Otohiko » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:10 pm

Well technically, there is a public place to talk about the redesign 24/7. It's called #grommet on IRC, you guys should hang out there more.

I think a "town hall" meeting is an excellent idea. The general meetings is something that's hard to have in public though. While about 70% of what's talked about is absolutely okay and would be beneficial to be observed publicly, there's still some stuff discussed in admin meetings (legal and site ownership issues, security issues, directives from the freemasons and illumanati) that needs to remain private. Given how difficult it can be to get all of the mods/admins together, it's just better to hold this stuff privately when the opportunity presents itself.

BUT I'm all in favour of scheduling a public meeting if others like the idea.
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