Pwolf wrote:Nya-chan Production wrote:I Fight For The Users wrote:Additionally, I am not interested in everyone's feedback. If I seriously considered everyone's opinion, the end product would be shit. I am instead working with a small group of people who I have come to trust. (So far: Ileia, AisuzuZwei, and Brad has chimed in about typefaces.) Membership is not closed, but I do give more serious consideration to feedback that demonstrates more than superficial knowledge of my goals and design principles.
Point 2:
You've just undermined the very three threads you've made here, congratulations. The fact that you don't even
consider feedback from some people (you wrote that yourself) is highly disheartening. And at this point the question arises, why don't you just pick those few people you trust and develop showing the website to only them?
And as for the last sentence - I know that you have the most power (if not all of it), writing the code. But from that sentence it seems that you know the best what is good for the community. Aaaand... I think that's not a good thing. If I wanted to, I could make a really ugly comparison here. And you could reply with a really nice comparison in reply. Well... after all, I just want to say that
I don't think it's a good thing to decide about the whole community for itself. Again.
I don't think so. He is posting these threads to get feedback and show people that something is being done instead of keeping it all hush-hush like we were doing before. David is creating a website based on the issues that have been presented in the past and has come up with what he thinks is the best way to tackle those issues. At this point there is no way to know for sure if it will work or not without having a full working website for us all to use and test. Your feedback thus far has basically suggested that it wont work and he should start over using someone else's ideas that he doesn't agree with. That's not productive at all. We can sit here and argue over what features we all want or what colors we want to see, or we can help David make something that will actually work by giving him feedback that's productive and relevant to what's actually being done.
It's been over two years and there's been nothing to show on the org's side as far as a redesign is concerned, aside from some database designs. Even then, without my intervention, there probably wouldn't be any work or thought about a redesign in the first place since the administration wanted to keep it under wraps until stuff was done, which nothing has been done to a point where they would've gone public. And, on that note, the threads I posted weren't meant to gather up all the ideas and impliment them all. They were to generate discussion which in turn would help get people motivated to do something, which David has done. I think we should all be grateful SOMEONE is doing something and at least give them the benefit of the doubt that they do indeed know what could be best for the org considering we, as a community, can't seem to figure that out ourselves anyway.
Believe me, I am very glad that something is shaping up. If I weren't, I'd just drop reading these threads and stopped contributing ideas at all. The fact that I try to see something that can be improved and try to offer it backs it up, I hope.
The thing is, I browse every release, but so far it's been all such basic things and flawlessly executed, that I just haven't found any broken functionality or things that I'd improve. I think that's a great thing, actually (and I am probably a bit lousy tester at this stage of coding). So I turn to what I think I could say something about, the graphical design, which even trythil said goes hand in hand with actual coding.
Still, every such issue is downplayed, and as you see, my ideas are not even considered anymore, instead I can pretty much fork and finish the whole page myself and then play with colors. Surely lifted my spirits.
I Fight For The Users wrote:BasharOfTheAges wrote:
Oh, I fully understand development choices have to be made and stuck to if progress is to happen. I almost feel like you're presenting a comment box that will get dumped in the trash because it's the polite thing to do and gives the illusion of interaction so you can point to it being there if people complain when it's all done. Like it's just a formality. Stuck between that and doing completely closed door design work, I can see where that might be the more palatable option.
Have you read
https://github.com/amvorg-underground/catalog/issues?
Those have all been filed by me. About half of them were actually thought up by me. If there's a closed comment box then I don't know where it is.
That issue log probably shows up that the Org users don't even know how to make git issues, or aren't willing to register to github just to file an issue. Maybe this idea of "The org users will file git issues" is wrong from the start - because most users won't, even those, who have good ideas and can see bugs I don't.
In fact I think 99% of the Org users even don't read these threads.
I Fight For The Users wrote:Sanya-nya wrote:
You've just undermined the very three threads you've made here, congratulations. The fact that you don't even consider feedback from some people (you wrote that yourself) is highly disheartening. And at this point the question arises, why don't you just pick those few people you trust and develop showing the website to only them?
You and Bashar are complaining about a development process because I don't like your ideas about
colors and offered you the opportunity to try out your ideas.
Uh-huh.
---
I'm going to end my involvement in this thread now, as it has become counterproductive. I am not, however, going to stop posting updates. If you filter out all the noise from Sanya-nya and Bashar, there's been good comments (thanks, CodeZTM, Driftroot, and pwolf), so evidently the forum thread mechanism still works.
In the meantime, file future feature requests and bug reports at
https://github.com/amvorg-underground/catalog/issues.
You offered me to FORK this stuff and then throw my stuff on top of it. Even if I wanted to, I don't know HOW (considering the structure and languages we've been talking about. Yes, I still haven't found the time to read about those THREE different technologies I need just to write up some CSS). I don't know WHERE would I put the fork. And nevermind that I would have to put up either a Linux dual boot or a VM, with your disc image and hope nothing gets broken (because I reinstalled an OS recently and the installation is gone).
And believe me, those 30-60 minutes you spent with me fixing various problems are nothing compared to normal user who just wants to help by saying "I think this color is ugly" and doesn't know how to run a Terminal. What are you going to tell him? Fork it? Make a github account?
I want to go and tell you "I don't think it should be this clean". More people want to, as you've seen. But it's not possible, instead the reply is "You can spend days, or even months on this thing I could try within an hour or so (though maybe later in the project, when more stuff is there). And then present it to me/people and we might consider it. Or throw it away".
I doubt anyone would want to spend months on a thing that might get thrown away in a minute.
And btw, this is exactly the problem I mentioned. Almost NOBODY here is able to do ANY technical stuff with what you're working on/with. Not now, not in the future. And if anyone outside a small circle of people isn't allowed to help or raise an idea, unless they file an issue/fork, then something is wrong (because I doubt Brad or others did that. No offense, but I wonder, how they got to that imagined inner circle of yours. Other than their idea of the page being similar to yours, that is.).