[beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by Nya-chan Production » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:32 am

I Fight For The Users wrote:
me wrote:Because people asked for it.
I want to qualify that: just because someone asks for something, that doesn't mean it's a good idea. However, those people who asked for it told me why they wanted it, showed me demos of that drag interaction in other sites (i.e. Facebook), and from there I could see that there is, in fact, quite a bit of value in providing that sort of function. It gets even better when you think about how it could be applied elsewhere. (For example, videos on profiles are shown with thumbnails. Why not make those customizable too?)
As the current state is, IMO it will result only in many broken headers on video pages. Surely there will be some reset button, though, which might fix it.
But still... can I hear those reasons? I can't imagine ANY marginal advantage of implementing that (which is probably my fault). If you can't shift image in image editor it will be most likely ugly anyway (and ugly artifacted image is still ugly artifacted image, even when shifted). And if you can why have it on page?

I'll try to stop by on #grommet, though :3
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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by Pwolf » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:17 pm

I like the idea of being able to drag the image around to get the right framing you want... that said, I think there's needs to be some bounds you can't cross. Using the default image, based on grabbing a set of frames from the video itself, I think you need to restrict any movement on the Y axis and take more frames from the video to make the overall width longer. Basically just gives you a long timeline of frames to pick from to make the banner. I hope that made sense. If you want to upload your own image, don't allow the user to drag past the bounds of the image where it repeats itself. it looks tacky. I think if an editor really wants their video banner image to have an obvious edge going down the middle of it, they can learn MS Paint or iPhoto and do it themselves.

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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by DriftRoot » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:33 am

I love that you're taking the time to do this and that it's actually moving forward. It's something this site really needs and will hopefully draw great benefits from. I've been following progress for awhile and haven't really said too much because I was still waiting to see how certain things resolved themselves, but since some topics have now come up I feel I want to chime in on, here I go. :mrgreen:

I will second Code's concerns regarding the bottom navigation, plus... Is that the only content that will be available at the bottom? It's hard to gauge the effectiveness of this homepage design when there is nothing in that big white space in the middle, the unknowns on this design are what concern me. If that's all there's going to be, I'd really challenge it. I want to be able to hop around to different areas of the site from anywhere on the site (one problem with the site now) whether I'm logged in or not. I also want to see the most important benefits/areas this site has to offer and get to them quickly and easily right from the homepage and any other page. It drives me nuts when sites don't have adequate navigation built in at the top or left that I have to scroll down and use their sitemap just to get around. It's just a very basic usability requirement, IMO - yes, have a sitemap as well, but most websites are built with topside and/or leftside navigation and that's why most people expect and are comfortable navigating websites that way. I don't see how forcing a different type of navigation onto a-m-v.org is in the site's best interest.

Also...I have to say that I look at this design and see something that is highly generic and is presenting a very cold, clinical approach to the AMV hobby. This last is a reputation a-m-v.org has which we all know has turned a lot of people away from this site. It's fine to look like we have a website that knows what it's doing, but where is the fun? Where is the casual love of AMVing? Where's the personality? The current site may be troublesome, but it's got fun colors, fun images and (in certain areas) fun copywriting that all help establish the feel of this site is. Do we really have to abandon all of that personality in pursuit of a more modern, updated website that's all whites and grays? To me this looks like you are re-branding a-m-v.org on top of designing a new website, and since we've been asked to share our opinions, I do not like the way this new a-m-v.org looks or feels for the reasons stated. Maybe more personality will be added into the center, but right now I can't really see what's going to be there...and that still leaves a frame around every page that doesn't exude great personality or brand.

Along these lines, where is space being allocated to effectively branding this website AS a-m-v.org? That whole featured video space at the top...I can't even make out what those images are supposed to be or represent (Princess Tutu, I know), but how is that compelling to click on? There's no hook there than "Featured Video" and a sliced up gallery of partial images. How is a whole, website-wide string of images the most effective way to get people to check out that video? I can't see why it needs to take up that much space or be presented like that. That whole areas is where I would expect to see something that clearly establishes "HEY, You're at a-m-v.org!!"
I Fight For The Users wrote: 1. Log in.
2. Sign up. (No sign up page yet, I know.)
3. Search the database.

Item #3 is the big one, which is why that search box eats up so much of the top. You should be able to get to any video, any event, any profile, any user-generated content from a single point. (Should I find a way to make phpBB behave, yeah, that may include forum threads.) The best way to do that, I think, is incremental search: as you type, you get suggestions. Properly executed, it's a very fast and satisfying feedback loop.
So...one highly likely pitfall here is the quality of the search results. Sure, someone can look for whatever they want, but what are they going to find? If someone searches for a "Princess Tutu AMV" are they going to get a list of totally random results, or is the search going to be controlled to display videos which meet certain parameters higher up on the list? Maybe those with the most opinions, highest star scores, most views? Allowing users to filter search results via a sidebar navigation scheme seems like it would be most the effective way to get people to the videos they want. Is this what you already had in mind?
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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by Chained(E)Studio » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:11 pm

DriftRoot wrote:I love that you're taking the time to do this and that it's actually moving forward. It's something this site really needs and will hopefully draw great benefits from. I've been following progress for awhile and haven't really said too much because I was still waiting to see how certain things resolved themselves, but since some topics have now come up I feel I want to chime in on, here I go. :mrgreen:

I will second Code's concerns regarding the bottom navigation, plus... Is that the only content that will be available at the bottom? It's hard to gauge the effectiveness of this homepage design when there is nothing in that big white space in the middle, the unknowns on this design are what concern me. If that's all there's going to be, I'd really challenge it. I want to be able to hop around to different areas of the site from anywhere on the site (one problem with the site now) whether I'm logged in or not. I also want to see the most important benefits/areas this site has to offer and get to them quickly and easily right from the homepage and any other page. It drives me nuts when sites don't have adequate navigation built in at the top or left that I have to scroll down and use their sitemap just to get around. It's just a very basic usability requirement, IMO - yes, have a sitemap as well, but most websites are built with topside and/or leftside navigation and that's why most people expect and are comfortable navigating websites that way. I don't see how forcing a different type of navigation onto a-m-v.org is in the site's best interest.

Also...I have to say that I look at this design and see something that is highly generic and is presenting a very cold, clinical approach to the AMV hobby. This last is a reputation a-m-v.org has which we all know has turned a lot of people away from this site. It's fine to look like we have a website that knows what it's doing, but where is the fun? Where is the casual love of AMVing? Where's the personality? The current site may be troublesome, but it's got fun colors, fun images and (in certain areas) fun copywriting that all help establish the feel of this site is. Do we really have to abandon all of that personality in pursuit of a more modern, updated website that's all whites and grays? To me this looks like you are re-branding a-m-v.org on top of designing a new website, and since we've been asked to share our opinions, I do not like the way this new a-m-v.org looks or feels for the reasons stated. Maybe more personality will be added into the center, but right now I can't really see what's going to be there...and that still leaves a frame around every page that doesn't exude great personality or brand.

Along these lines, where is space being allocated to effectively branding this website AS a-m-v.org? That whole featured video space at the top...I can't even make out what those images are supposed to be or represent (Princess Tutu, I know), but how is that compelling to click on? There's no hook there than "Featured Video" and a sliced up gallery of partial images. How is a whole, website-wide string of images the most effective way to get people to check out that video? I can't see why it needs to take up that much space or be presented like that. That whole areas is where I would expect to see something that clearly establishes "HEY, You're at a-m-v.org!!"
x2

I also feel that this layout will just scare people away more than the original does. I'm already confused on how I am supposed to use it and what page I could possibly be on. I feel new users or current users who are still trying to learn with the site now will just be lost in a sea of white. They will come to the page and be like .. O-O. Then they'll give up or leave. While current users who enjoy org will be the ONLY ones to take the time to learn it (which is bad). You shouldn't have to search that hard to find everything on a web site to begin with especially with the navigation at the bottom. When the original was on the side, it should be taking things from the old and implementing them into the new. Not just trashing everything like it seems to be. This not only keeps current, past users up to date with how the new design works but new users can still use it easily.

Right now if that's how the site is going to be going... I'd rather just go to Apple and see if they will upload my AMVs. ='p

My eyes already go crazy just trying to stare at the beta D:
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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by I Fight For The Users » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:38 am

The sterility of each page depends on two things.

1. The user managing the page (e.g. profile, video pages).
2. For search pages, it is the set of users whose videos/profiles/etc. show up in the results.

The degree to which this new layout appears sterile is therefore entirely up to you. This will become clearer as additional editing functionality comes online, but you can get an idea of what's going on with the profile image editor.

re: search results: Yes, quality of search results is an important factor in the success of search. That's my responsibility to get right, and I'll get it as right as I can. I have some ideas about this, and we'll see how they work once they're implemented.
Pwolf wrote: I like the idea of being able to drag the image around to get the right framing you want... that said, I think there's needs to be some bounds you can't cross. Using the default image, based on grabbing a set of frames from the video itself, I think you need to restrict any movement on the Y axis and take more frames from the video to make the overall width longer. Basically just gives you a long timeline of frames to pick from to make the banner. I hope that made sense. If you want to upload your own image, don't allow the user to drag past the bounds of the image where it repeats itself. it looks tacky. I think if an editor really wants their video banner image to have an obvious edge going down the middle of it, they can learn MS Paint or iPhoto and do it themselves.
This is something that Facebook does, and it's something I've considered implementing -- but I'll leave it out for now; when more people start using that functionality, we can look at it then.

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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by I Fight For The Users » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:50 am

Kariudo sent me some metrics. Here's a selection of page hits over the past six months:

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My reading of this is that I'm on the right track.

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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by CodeZTM » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:56 am

Out of curiosity, what is the funcationality of the quick comment and opinion system going to be like? I know it's not the most important thing right now, but it's just something that I'm curious about (as both of them are something that I use frequently).

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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by I Fight For The Users » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:00 am

CodeZTM wrote: Out of curiosity, what is the funcationality of the quick comment and opinion system going to be like? I know it's not the most important thing right now, but it's just something that I'm curious about (as both of them are something that I use frequently).
Leaving them out for now; will probably open up a beta without them. (This doesn't mean that existing QC/opinion data will be deleted; there's no reason to delete it.)

I (with the rest of the Machine) have been tossing around an idea for alternative system that may spur greater activity: https://github.com/amvorg-underground/catalog/issues/31

That issue doesn't really describe the system in that much detail, but that's because I don't have much else concrete to write about it at the moment.

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CORRECTION

Post by I Fight For The Users » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:02 am

Where I previously wrote "metrics", insert "activity data". Metrics are how you measure; activity data is what you get out of those metrics.

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Re: [beta.a-m-v.org] Hey, we're semi-official

Post by Pwolf » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:42 am

I Fight For The Users wrote:This is something that Facebook does, and it's something I've considered implementing -- but I'll leave it out for now; when more people start using that functionality, we can look at it then.
Sounds good to me.

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