Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Kariudo » Thu May 31, 2012 5:29 pm

The AMV Scene Suggestions thing came from the perception that AMV Suggestions is mostly used for people requesting where to find clips of people doing x. There's a few requests/ideas for AMVs thrown out there from time to time, but I've never really seen anyone take on a request from that forum...at least nobody that's posted that they actually took the idea/request. It's starting to sound like updating the forum description is the better plan here.

outlawed wrote:Skimmed this thread and from a design standpoint I don't see people asking the right questions about why and when to have subforums instead of just 1 single forurm for a site. The purposes of of having subforums is to filter off conversation so one place isn't flooded. If a site has 100 users you don't make 15 different subforums just to categorize posts.

You need to look at the metrics of post activity. If there is not high traffic it's better to have one larger encompassing subforum so it actually has activity and people are aware of new posts. This also makes moderation easier.

I did gather some activity metrics, they're rough, but it gave me an idea of general activity in each sub/forum.

Kinda like with the editing program forums, there may still be some merit in keeping Footage Help and Compression, Encoding, and Converting separate. I can see the sense in just merging them both though.

Video Hardware is slow (always has been), but I think merging it with Footage Help & Compression, Encoding, and Converting would be a bit awkward. The first one is Hardware, the last two are software.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Zanzaben » Thu May 31, 2012 8:25 pm

Kariudo wrote:The AMV Scene Suggestions thing came from the perception that AMV Suggestions is mostly used for people requesting where to find clips of people doing x. There's a few requests/ideas for AMVs thrown out there from time to time, but I've never really seen anyone take on a request from that forum...at least nobody that's posted that they actually took the idea/request. It's starting to sound like updating the forum description is the better plan here.


You are right that the majority are about finding clips however there are also ones about helping to chose a song (I myself have made one). As for the posts about anime X and song Y there are surprising number of them actually but as you said I don't know of anyone who really uses them.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby SQ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:04 am

gotegenks wrote:Sq, hes workinf directly with the mods (i assume) so mods reading what he posts is a given and doesnt help much, hes wanting to achieve more than just mods' and a few members' participation. But bashar has a good point about all those old threads.

So I'm not allowed to voice my opinion any more?
I was emailed some things to get to this point, but there are some things mentioned in this thread that were not mentioned in emails prior.
Also, my opinion can change as I read others' views.

I'm no more important than anybody else. I'll admit I was really surprised he namedropped me (wasn't expecting that at all), but the only reason I even entered the discussion is because I was a normal user who posted in the .org redesign forum with a fairly thought-out plan on how forum reorganization should go, and somebody on high noticed it. That's all.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby gotegenks » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:52 am

SQ wrote:
gotegenks wrote:Sq, hes workinf directly with the mods (i assume) so mods reading what he posts is a given and doesnt help much, hes wanting to achieve more than just mods' and a few members' participation. But bashar has a good point about all those old threads.

So I'm not allowed to voice my opinion any more?
I was emailed some things to get to this point, but there are some things mentioned in this thread that were not mentioned in emails prior.
Also, my opinion can change as I read others' views.

I'm no more important than anybody else. I'll admit I was really surprised he namedropped me (wasn't expecting that at all), but the only reason I even entered the discussion is because I was a normal user who posted in the .org redesign forum with a fairly thought-out plan on how forum reorganization should go, and somebody on high noticed it. That's all.

i don't know why you're offended, but sorry.

he just said "the forum where i have to post isn't achieving what i want to achieve, and what i want to achieve is all the members interested in the redesign to actually post" which would be a lot of members, the mods being a given since he's been working with them directly from the start. Your rebuttal to that was "the forums are fine, look at me! i posted, and i got THE MODS to see it/do something" and while i agree that's pretty cool for someone on our level, it doesn't matter to IFFTU at this point since he already has that.

i don't see how i was shutting you up or putting you down, but i'm sorry that it happened.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby SQ » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:45 pm

Gotegenks,
sorry, now that I re-read that, my reply seems really defensive. I wasn't offended.
Just confused by what you were saying.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Kariudo » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:32 pm

Here's an updated hierarchy:
  • Anime Music Videos
    • General AMV
      • Recommended AMVs
      • AMV Suggestions
    • AMV Announcements
    • Opinion Exchange
    • AMV Contests
    • Org Supported Contests
      • (sub-category) Active Contests
      • Quickening
      • OrgEditor 2
      • (sub-category) Contest Archives
      • OrgEditor 1
      • (sub-category) VCAs
        etc...
    • Multi-Editor Projects

  • Anime
    • General Anime
      • Anime Screencaps
    • Anime Series Discussion
    • Anime Conventions (merging Convention Exchange into Anime Conventions)

  • Editing & Technology
    • Video & Audio Help
      • Footage Help (Combining Avisynth, Capture/Rip, and Compression/Encoding/Converting)
      • Video Hardware Discussion (renaming Video Hardware Help)
      • (sub-category)Video Software Help
      • Adobe software
      • Sony Vegas
      • WMM
      • Mac Software
    • Visual Effects

  • Website
    • General Discussion
      • Music Discussion
    • Site Help & Feedback (combining Site Help & Site Feedback)
      • Org Redesign
    • Moderator Drop Box

Misc. changes:
-Other ICs will be removed
-Heads Up! threads will be merged into General Discussion, and a Heads Up! sticky will be made
-Audio Help threads will be merged into Video & Audio Help
-Forum description changes for Anime Conventions, Visual Effects (minor change), Opinion Exchange (to better indicate that betas are welcome in that forum), AMV Suggestions (indicate clip finding is welcome), and Video Hardware Discussion

One thing that I kinda forgot about until now...the video software help archive. It can be moved to be a subforum of Video & Audio Help, or removed from view. I'm more partial to removing it from view at this point, as the most recent information there is coming up on 6 years old...and most of the old questions have probably been asked again in the individual program subforums. Anyone else care to weigh in?
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby mirkosp » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:56 pm

Kariudo wrote:
  • Editing & Technology
    • Video & Audio Help
      • Footage Help (Combining Avisynth, Capture/Rip, and Compression/Encoding/Converting)
      • Video Hardware Discussion (renaming Video Hardware Help)
      • (sub-category)Video Software Help
      • Adobe software
      • Sony Vegas
      • WMM
      • Mac Software
    • Visual Effects

At this point, wouldn't it make more sense to ditch the "video & audio help" subcathegory or rename editing & technology into video & audio help directly? The only one to stay out of video & audio help anymore is visual effects, and that is very much fitting under video help anyway, so it would just bring everything else up a level. Or did I miss the discussion that brought it to this?

One thing that I kinda forgot about until now...the video software help archive. It can be moved to be a subforum of Video & Audio Help, or removed from view. I'm more partial to removing it from view at this point, as the most recent information there is coming up on 6 years old...and most of the old questions have probably been asked again in the individual program subforums. Anyone else care to weigh in?

Even if there were to be unique questions in there, I think it would be better to hide it. The answers are likely old stuff (hell, many of the older threads in the current section could be better off split out and hidden), and that tends to be bad since the software and ways to do things change and improve every day, so very old answers could end up doing the opposite of actually being of help.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby M'o'l » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:08 pm

I think anime series discussion can be sub of general anime.
Since video &audio help has that many sub forums it wouldn't be maybe that bad to put visual effects too? And rename it to something like "video/audio/visual effects"

Amv contest-can be a sub of general amv
Actually amv announcements/meps could be sub of it too since it's general but w/e : p


Why not rename general discussion to Off topic? Would be one general less , and maybe it's a bit confusing to hold it under "web site" it doesn't have much in common :uhoh: or rename "web site" to "various stuff" or something.

just 5cents :dino:
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Kariudo » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:10 pm

@mirko: Editing & Technology is a category, while Video & Audio Help is a forum.
Categories can only hold forums (forums can have topics, sub-forums, and categories), and Video & Audio Help is trying to remove the overlap between General Video and Avisynth, Capture/Rip, and Compression/Encoding/Converting.

We could keep Video Editing Software where it is right now instead of burying it in Video & Audio Help to give Editing & Technology a third forum again. There'd be no difference in board index space compared to the proposal at the start of this thread.

@Milk Or Life:
Anime Series Discussion, AMV Announcements, MEPs, and AMV Contests are quite active, so I believe they deserve their status as 1st level forums (the ones that appear on the board index). In general, the purpose of making forum X a sub-forum in the new layout is:
-to archive a dead forum that we want to keep visible (Screencaps)
-to get a forum off of the board index due to inactivity (Recommended AMVs)

AMV Suggestions and Footage Help don't exactly follow that, but that's why they're only general guidelines :amv:

As I understand it, there's a stigma associated with the name "Off Topic". I've heard the story (don't remember it well, though), but it was before my time here.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby SQ » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:09 pm

Kariudo wrote:As I understand it, there's a stigma associated with the name "Off Topic". I've heard the story (don't remember it well, though), but it was before my time here.

It was a long time a go, and while the story's tragic, I don't honestly see why we can't rename the forum back to Off Topic. We have to learn to get over it sometime. Besides, with how tight-lipped the community (usually) is/was, I doubt anybody not actually in the forum at the time knows/remembers it anyway.

As an aside-- In the new markup, Anime screencaps and anime series discussion are their own forums.
I thought they had been planned for merging into general anime?

And I think the video software help archive should also be hidden, too.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Otohiko » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:03 pm

I actually insisted on naming it General Discussion when the issue came up, and I'll stand by it. I don't like the name "Off Topic" at all - and as much as I am nostalgic for the old OT too, I think the name itself invites uncommitted, spammy sort of stuff that may have been a problem with the old one. If you analyze the name semantically, it does invite trouble by default.

I've actually observed carefully the way other forums have dealt with this issues (including others I've moderated/moderate), and "General Discussion" or "General Topics" seems to create a more successful balance of participation and attitude from members.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby I Fight For The Users » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:00 pm

SQ wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote:The sub-forum has achieved dick. The proportion of people who seem to be interested in reworking this site to those who have actually commented on the active product remains frustratingly, hugely tilted towards the former side.


Actually, now that I think about it, a better approach is to eliminate that subforum entirely, get the current product under beta.animemusicvideos.org (or something) and redirect discussion to that product's Github Issues tracker, where discussion is actually actionable.

I disagree.

The forum has obviously not "achieved dick", because my thread in that forum is what brought on this.
I agree very few people use it, but let's face it, here: the org has been "under redesign" for at least 2 - 3 years now. That forum is a good place to slap down ideas and perhaps work on them later.

Case in point - I proposed several of these changes in february. It's June now. If there was no forum, but rather a test site(if I'm reading what you say correctly), then there'd be no "look back at what other people suggested a long time a go".

While a beta site may get things done faster (rogue programmers/coders doing random sandbox shit), it would likely not get implemented simply because it wasn't done by doki (or whomever happens to be webdev now).
Not saying it wouldn't be a cool idea. Just hard to police.

Or perhaps I totally misread what you were saying, I don't know.


You not only misread what I wrote, but you have proven to me that you haven't been reading what's been going on in that forum. Which brings me back to my point of that forum doing squat: nobody's paying attention to what's going on.

"Rogue programmers doing random sandbox shit"? Have you bothered to look at the infrastructure for what I've built? Are you aware that there's a test application deployed? It's all very transparent and methodical: continuous builds, issue tracker, public source repository. Documentation is a bit on the scant side, but I'm working on that.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby I Fight For The Users » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:02 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:And selectable tags? That's quite a bit of work from programmers, mods, and people (and if people fail even more work on mods). The current system works just as fine without unnecessary work from all parties involved.


If you're going to reorganize, then you first choose the best possible way, regardless of what extra work is required. That's why there's developers to augment software.

What you wrote sounds a lot like "I like the status quo, but I guess we should perpetuate the illusion that we're changing things, so let's just shuffle some rows around in the phpBB administration panel."
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby I Fight For The Users » Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:16 pm

I'd like to apologize for the previous posts, as they were unnecessary venting. I'm frustrated that the only effort so far to bring the .org somewhere new (i.e. mine) has so far been confined to a ghetto, despite support from some forum moderators.

I shouldn't be frustrated, though, because it's still moving forward, regardless of where it's stuck.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Pwolf » Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:04 pm

I Fight For The Users wrote:I'm frustrated that the only effort so far to bring the .org somewhere new (i.e. mine) has so far been confined to a ghetto, despite support from some forum moderators.


There really should be a larger presence on the forum for this. I think a lot of us appreciate the work you've been putting into it and if this is where the administration plans on going with the site, perhaps it should be more official.
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