Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

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gotegenks
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 3:01 pm

we should at least give org redesign the same (if not better) treatment than org supported contests and give it a link on the index page to highlight it.
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BasharOfTheAges
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by BasharOfTheAges » Wed May 30, 2012 4:17 pm

gotegenks wrote:we should at least give org redesign the same (if not better) treatment than org supported contests and give it a link on the index page to highlight it.
I really don't know about that... Design by committee (especially committee lacking relevant qualifications) leads to bureaucratic inaction. Keeping it out of the way gives the illusion of open participation with the realistic understanding that you're keeping the riffraff out. See the above comment about stupid users and sub-forums.


In all seriousness, though, site design shouldn't be a free-for-all democratic process. It should be a team effort, sure, but by a team of people that know what they're talking about, not everyone. Token participation, like this thread, nothing more.
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Kariudo
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by Kariudo » Wed May 30, 2012 4:43 pm

Ileia wrote:Same as Bashar, I agree that AMV Contests and Org-Supported Contests should stay separate, and the Other IC forum can go.
The balance is now soundly tipping in the "keeping them separate" direction.
Ileia wrote:Everything else looks fine to me.
Cool :up:
Ileia wrote:It might be a good idea to put a notice up on the main site about this thread to give more members a chance to weigh-in (especially given the time limit).
Couldn't hurt, might help. I'll get on that (or I'll get GQ to do it).
CodeZTM wrote:Perhaps Sticky Heads Up in General Discussion, then we can expand it to more than just anime, software, ect and go into video games and whatnot.
With getting rid of Heads Up, we were planning to suggest such threads go into General Discussion. A sticky is sounding like a good idea.
gotegenks wrote:could we get a separate section for contests whose deadlines have passed and are just waiting on results? or would that take too much moderation...
That concern seems to be covered by the contest results directory sticky...which is sporadically updated. It would involve quite a bit of moderation, and I don't see it being kept better than the sticky is currently.
gotegenks wrote:introduction category that includes the thread towards the top? that suggestions been said before but i figure it might as well be represented while we're on the subject.
I'll have to look at the various threads on that later, but an introduction forum has never really had wide support. At our current level of activity, a sticky thread is doing fine.
gotegenks wrote:how about moving general music out of general discussion and just having em called "Off Topic" and like, music discussion or something.
General Music is somewhat active, but we think it's better suited as a subforum at this point. If there's anywhere to put a subforum with hopes of little impact on activity, General Discussion would be that place.
gotegenks wrote:separating online contests/ics and convention contests? then you could definitely do away with org supported cons as those are all online so you could just sticky them if they need to be highlighted or put a link on the index page like we do now.
OSC also serves as an archive for events that have finished, like the VCAs.
gotegenks wrote:move opinion exchange to right under amv announcements, as the two go hand in hand somewhat and some people don't enter conventions or contests at all so it makes sense to me to have those before contest stuff.
I see your point, who else agrees with this?
gotegenks wrote:what is moderator drop box even for that site feedback doesn't cover? honest quesiton.
The mod drop box was for reporting posts before phpbb came out with the "report posts" feature (which I think was introduced in phpbb 3). It also serves as a place to report videos (non-anime, duplicates, stolen videos in the catalog, etc...). There was a time when most (if not all) moderators were hidden, so that forum was THE way to get a mod's attention.
gotegenks wrote:we should at least give org redesign the same (if not better) treatment than org supported contests and give it a link on the index page to highlight it.
I think Bashar put it quite well. I think this may also fall along some of the same lines that I Fight For The Users was getting at in the "Org Propoganda" thread.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 7:57 pm

i wasn't suggesting forum separation for the sake of archival, it was more for the sake of cleaning up the contests sections for people that wanna enter cons so they don't have to sift through tons and tons of threads about cons whose deadlines have passed, because most coordinators don't update their thread titles or original posts to say "deadline passed!"

this problem could also be solved by including in that thread a list of all the contests whose deadlines haven't passed, then people could just go there instead of looking at every single thread for what they wanna enter. assuming they're entering somewhat blindly and not by region or anything like that.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 8:00 pm

gotegenks wrote:because most coordinators don't update their thread titles or original posts to say "deadline passed!"
actually, if you include threads with deadlines in their title, it's around half, but it's still exhausting reading through them all and then analyzing the numbers and keeping track of which thread you're looking at now and what today's date is and if you've already looked at that thread before and a bunch of other things.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by I Fight For The Users » Wed May 30, 2012 8:57 pm

Kariudo wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote:Flatten the hierarchy.
Why?
That's how the current layout is, save for Org Supported Contests and Video Editing Software. Part of the goal here is to clean up the board index, another part is to keep things visible, yet another is to group things logically. Flattening would run counter to at least one of those goals.
I don't see "maintain unnecessary complexity" as a goal, but that's what the proposed hierarchy does.

There is no need to separate AMV scene discussions from an Anime Music Videos board; a post about the former is perfectly on-topic in the latter, and a board without that additional hierarchy is a simpler one. People tend to use their browser capabilities (i.e. history, bookmarks) and forum capabilities (notifications) to come back to popular threads.

Retrieval and query can be addressed in ways that don't involve unnecessary, vague categorization, like curated tags or (better yet) not using a discussion forum as an information repository.
Kariudo wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote:There is no need for "General [X]". Seriously, what kind of category name is "General"? You might as well just call it "Other" or "Uncategorized". Move "General [X]" into X.
It'd be a general name :awesome: . If we change to "General [X]" into X, we'd have X appear twice in some locations (Category - Anime, Forum - Anime...same with AMVs when no contests are running) which comes across as tacky.
Then flatten the resulting duplications into the same forum, and eliminate unnecessary categorization. "Anime" is fine as a top-level board; "Anime Discussion" is redundant, because it's an online bulletin board system. Of course it's discussion; you don't need to put that in the title.

"Anime Music Videos" and "Anime" are not the same term, so that's fine too.
Kariudo wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote:There is no need to separate video software help by program; people tend to include a popular name of the program in their post title.
I count on people following naming conventions as much as I count on people reading stickies before posting. I believe there's still value in maintaining the visual separation. It cuts down on the scanning that people experienced with a particular program have to do when looking for a thread they can help in. It also makes a clear delineation for new(er) members looking for help.
Permit posts in those forums to be tagged as program-specific; get moderators to maintain those tags. That eliminates some scanning. Make those tags selectable and you'll eliminate all scanning.

Your last point doesn't make a lot of sense, as the program-specific sub-boards are currently only visible as small text on the main index. It's much easier to ask for help in a "video software help" board with useful filtering than it is to go through a tediously small list of links.
Kariudo wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote:Merge Org Redesign into the top-level Website forum, and grant me the ability to sticky selected threads in that subforum.
Why merge them? The sub-forum is achieving its goal in my eyes.
How naïve do you think I am?

The sub-forum has achieved dick. The proportion of people who seem to be interested in reworking this site to those who have actually commented on the active product remains frustratingly, hugely tilted towards the former side.

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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by I Fight For The Users » Wed May 30, 2012 9:01 pm

I Fight For The Users wrote: The sub-forum has achieved dick. The proportion of people who seem to be interested in reworking this site to those who have actually commented on the active product remains frustratingly, hugely tilted towards the former side.
Actually, now that I think about it, a better approach is to eliminate that subforum entirely, get the current product under beta.animemusicvideos.org (or something) and redirect discussion to that product's Github Issues tracker, where discussion is actually actionable.

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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by SQ » Thu May 31, 2012 4:47 am

Kariudo wrote:
gotegenks wrote:move opinion exchange to right under amv announcements, as the two go hand in hand somewhat and some people don't enter conventions or contests at all so it makes sense to me to have those before contest stuff.
I see your point, who else agrees with this?
I do. =3
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by SQ » Thu May 31, 2012 4:53 am

I Fight For The Users wrote:
I Fight For The Users wrote: The sub-forum has achieved dick. The proportion of people who seem to be interested in reworking this site to those who have actually commented on the active product remains frustratingly, hugely tilted towards the former side.
Actually, now that I think about it, a better approach is to eliminate that subforum entirely, get the current product under beta.animemusicvideos.org (or something) and redirect discussion to that product's Github Issues tracker, where discussion is actually actionable.
I disagree.

The forum has obviously not "achieved dick", because my thread in that forum is what brought on this.
I agree very few people use it, but let's face it, here: the org has been "under redesign" for at least 2 - 3 years now. That forum is a good place to slap down ideas and perhaps work on them later.

Case in point - I proposed several of these changes in february. It's June now. If there was no forum, but rather a test site(if I'm reading what you say correctly), then there'd be no "look back at what other people suggested a long time a go".

While a beta site may get things done faster (rogue programmers/coders doing random sandbox shit), it would likely not get implemented simply because it wasn't done by doki (or whomever happens to be webdev now).
Not saying it wouldn't be a cool idea. Just hard to police.

Or perhaps I totally misread what you were saying, I don't know.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Post by pacotacoshell » Thu May 31, 2012 5:35 am

I don't think AMV Suggestions should be renamed. Not every thread on there is looking for certain scenes for a video. I see a ton of "Hey, it would be awesome if someone could edit X song with X anime." Some people even give out concepts and stuff that they can't do and want to share with someone else so they can try it out.
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