Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

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Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Kariudo » Tue May 29, 2012 1:20 pm

SQ had suggested some changes back in February. Long story short, I started working on it last week. I used SQ's proposal as a starting point, and went from there. After getting feedback from GQ, our mods, and SQ, this is what we propose:

  • Anime Music Videos
    • General AMV
      • Recommended AMVs
      • AMV Scene Suggestions (renaming AMV Suggestions)
    • AMV Announcements
    • AMV Contests
    • Org Supported Contests
      • (sub-category) Active Contests
      • Quickening
      • OrgEditor 2
      • (sub-category) Contest Archives
      • OrgEditor 1
      • (sub-category) VCAs
        etc...
    • Opinion Exchange
    • Multi-Editor Projects

  • Anime
    • General Anime
      • Anime Screencaps
    • Anime Series Discussion
    • Anime Conventions (merging Convention Exchange into Anime Conventions)

  • Editing & Technology
    • General Video & Audio Help
      • Footage Help (Combining Avisynth & Capture/Rip)
      • Video Hardware Discussion (renaming Video Hardware Help)
      • (sub-category)Video Software Help
      • Adobe software
      • Sony Vegas
      • WMM
      • Mac Software
    • Compression, Encoding, and Converting
    • Special Effects

  • Website
    • General Discussion
      • General Music
    • Site Help & Feedback (combining Site Help & Site Feedback)
      • Org Redesign
    • Moderator Drop Box

Now, before we make these changes, I want to get feedback from you. If you have questions about the forum proposal, please ask them. If you have suggestions for better forum names, or for changing a part of the proposed layout, post away!

In addition to that, there's a few questions I have for all of you:

-Two forums, Heads Up! and Audio Help, are targeted for removal. We can merge all threads into their new homes (General Discussion, and General Video & Audio Help respectively), or just the currently active threads. The "Other ICs" forum is also being considered for removal since it's had zero activity in the year since its creation. Which option sounds better?

-Seeing as Anime Screencaps has about 2 active threads, we'd like to move them into General Anime and make Screencaps more of an archive. Alternatively, we can remove Screencaps from view (moving a few more of the once popular threads into General Anime). Which would you prefer?

-The structure of Org Supported Contests and AMV Contests makes it so that they could easily be merged. Is this something you would like to see? If so, any suggestions for what name to use for the merged forum?

I'd like to keep things moving along here, so I'll give everyone one week (until June 5th) to weigh in. If we need more time to get things finalized, we'll take more time, but don't count on it. If you have something to say, say it now or forever hold your pizza.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby gotegenks » Tue May 29, 2012 4:32 pm

section for tutorials under editing and technology?
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue May 29, 2012 4:47 pm

I'd say:
* Merge Heads Up! and Audio Help into where they belong including all old threads. It's cleaner.
* Nuke "Other ICs" - nothing of value is lost.
* No opinion on the screencaps forum - never had any reason to be there.
* I'd like to see AMV Contests and Org Supported Contests stay separate. The latter are more "events" than "contests." Maybe the name should suggest that too? Either way, keeping convention-based contests in a uniquely identifiable position of their own (at the top level) is good for promoting the site at cons.

Also, putting Recommended AMVs in a sub-forum the first time effectively killed it. I can see the perceived benefit of putting it back there (nothing to lose at this point - taking it back out didn't help), but don't be surprised if the same thing doesn't happen to AMV Suggestions now too.

I'm not sure if you have the data on hand, but look at the forum activity numbers on any category after you moved it to a sub-level when it used to be on the top and see if you don't notice the sharp drop-offs independent of general forum activity decline. I'm not saying all these ideas don't make sense from a logical point of view - they certainly do seem very logically structured - but stupid users have historically posted less in hierarchically demoted forums.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Niotex » Tue May 29, 2012 7:52 pm

Special Effects needs to be renamed to Visual Effects.

Sub-forum specific mods would also be a welcome addition. Tho I'm not sure if that would be up for debate in this case.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby I Fight For The Users » Tue May 29, 2012 10:47 pm

Flatten the hierarchy.

There is no need for "General [X]". Seriously, what kind of category name is "General"? You might as well just call it "Other" or "Uncategorized". Move "General [X]" into X.
There is no need to separate video software help by program; people tend to include a popular name of the program in their post title.
Merge Org Redesign into the top-level Website forum, and grant me the ability to sticky selected threads in that subforum.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Ileia » Wed May 30, 2012 2:04 pm

Same as Bashar, I agree that AMV Contests and Org-Supported Contests should stay separate, and the Other IC forum can go. Everything else looks fine to me.

It might be a good idea to put a notice up on the main site about this thread to give more members a chance to weigh-in (especially given the time limit).
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby CodeZTM » Wed May 30, 2012 2:08 pm

-Two forums, Heads Up! and Audio Help, are targeted for removal. We can merge all threads into their new homes (General Discussion, and General Video & Audio Help respectively), or just the currently active threads. The "Other ICs" forum is also being considered for removal since it's had zero activity in the year since its creation. Which option sounds better?


Perhaps Sticky Heads Up in General Discussion, then we can expand it to more than just anime, software, ect and go into video games and whatnot. Audio help's merging sounds good. Lose the Other ICs. Never used. <_<

-Seeing as Anime Screencaps has about 2 active threads, we'd like to move them into General Anime and make Screencaps more of an archive. Alternatively, we can remove Screencaps from view (moving a few more of the once popular threads into General Anime). Which would you prefer?

Yeah, ditch SCreencaps and move the active threads into General Anime. I'd love to see the "Desktop Wallpaper / Avatar" threads put back in there though.

-The structure of Org Supported Contests and AMV Contests makes it so that they could easily be merged. Is this something you would like to see? If so, any suggestions for what name to use for the merged forum?


Nuuuuu. Personally it's nice to have subforums for the Org Contests, because they're not the same as the convention contests all in AMV Contests. There's a big difference.

______________________

Introduction subforum in general AMV? :uhoh:

/dodges incoming discussion
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 2:34 pm

could we get a separate section for contests whose deadlines have passed and are just waiting on results? or would that take too much moderation...

introduction category that includes the thread towards the top? that suggestions been said before but i figure it might as well be represented while we're on the subject.

how about moving general music out of general discussion and just having em called "Off Topic" and like, music discussion or something.

separating online contests/ics and convention contests? then you could definitely do away with org supported cons as those are all online so you could just sticky them if they need to be highlighted or put a link on the index page like we do now.

move opinion exchange to right under amv announcements, as the two go hand in hand somewhat and some people don't enter conventions or contests at all so it makes sense to me to have those before contest stuff.

what is moderator drop box even for that site feedback doesn't cover? honest quesiton.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed May 30, 2012 2:42 pm

gotegenks wrote:what is moderator drop box even for that site feedback doesn't cover? honest quesiton.

I'd have to guess public shaming of someone where they can't be talked back to... Otherwise the combination of the help forums and the "report post" button on any post would do the job just fine.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Kariudo » Wed May 30, 2012 2:54 pm

gotegenks wrote:section for tutorials under editing and technology?

I have a feeling this has been suggested before...I think it was this thread. I think Zarx makes a good point there. For now, let's just put tutorials in their respective sub-forums (or what will be General Video & Audio Help). If there's enough interest (and enough people) posting tutorials, we'll look at making it into its own sub/forum.

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Also, putting Recommended AMVs in a sub-forum the first time effectively killed it. I can see the perceived benefit of putting it back there (nothing to lose at this point - taking it back out didn't help), but don't be surprised if the same thing doesn't happen to AMV Suggestions now too.

I'm not sure if you have the data on hand, but look at the forum activity numbers on any category after you moved it to a sub-level when it used to be on the top and see if you don't notice the sharp drop-offs independent of general forum activity decline. I'm not saying all these ideas don't make sense from a logical point of view - they certainly do seem very logically structured - but stupid users have historically posted less in hierarchically demoted forums.

It wouldn't come as a surprise if AMV Suggestions dies off after this, but perhaps having more than one subforum in General AMV, and it being fairly active (at least in terms of topic creation) will help it.

Niotex wrote:Special Effects needs to be renamed to Visual Effects.

Easy enough, is there anything in the forum description that should be changed as well (aside from replacing sfx with vfx in that one spot in the description)?

Niotex wrote:Sub-forum specific mods would also be a welcome addition. Tho I'm not sure if that would be up for debate in this case.
I think there's general support for this amongst the mods, but the details still need to be worked out. I'll see that we'll start talking about it before next week.

I Fight For The Users wrote:Flatten the hierarchy.
Why?
That's how the current layout is, save for Org Supported Contests and Video Editing Software. Part of the goal here is to clean up the board index, another part is to keep things visible, yet another is to group things logically. Flattening would run counter to at least one of those goals.

I Fight For The Users wrote:There is no need for "General [X]". Seriously, what kind of category name is "General"? You might as well just call it "Other" or "Uncategorized". Move "General [X]" into X.
It'd be a general name :awesome: . If we change to "General [X]" into X, we'd have X appear twice in some locations (Category - Anime, Forum - Anime...same with AMVs when no contests are running) which comes across as tacky. I believe the "General" prefix is a meaningful separator for General AMVs, General Anime, and General Discussion. General Video & Audio Help is debatable, and I could see General Music being changed to Music Discussion. Anyone else care to comment on this?

I Fight For The Users wrote:There is no need to separate video software help by program; people tend to include a popular name of the program in their post title.
I count on people following naming conventions as much as I count on people reading stickies before posting. I believe there's still value in maintaining the visual separation. It cuts down on the scanning that people experienced with a particular program have to do when looking for a thread they can help in. It also makes a clear delineation for new(er) members looking for help.

I Fight For The Users wrote:Merge Org Redesign into the top-level Website forum, and grant me the ability to sticky selected threads in that subforum.
Why merge them? The sub-forum is achieving its goal in my eyes.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 3:01 pm

we should at least give org redesign the same (if not better) treatment than org supported contests and give it a link on the index page to highlight it.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Wed May 30, 2012 4:17 pm

gotegenks wrote:we should at least give org redesign the same (if not better) treatment than org supported contests and give it a link on the index page to highlight it.

I really don't know about that... Design by committee (especially committee lacking relevant qualifications) leads to bureaucratic inaction. Keeping it out of the way gives the illusion of open participation with the realistic understanding that you're keeping the riffraff out. See the above comment about stupid users and sub-forums.


In all seriousness, though, site design shouldn't be a free-for-all democratic process. It should be a team effort, sure, but by a team of people that know what they're talking about, not everyone. Token participation, like this thread, nothing more.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby Kariudo » Wed May 30, 2012 4:43 pm

Ileia wrote:Same as Bashar, I agree that AMV Contests and Org-Supported Contests should stay separate, and the Other IC forum can go.
The balance is now soundly tipping in the "keeping them separate" direction.

Ileia wrote:Everything else looks fine to me.
Cool :up:

Ileia wrote:It might be a good idea to put a notice up on the main site about this thread to give more members a chance to weigh-in (especially given the time limit).
Couldn't hurt, might help. I'll get on that (or I'll get GQ to do it).

CodeZTM wrote:Perhaps Sticky Heads Up in General Discussion, then we can expand it to more than just anime, software, ect and go into video games and whatnot.
With getting rid of Heads Up, we were planning to suggest such threads go into General Discussion. A sticky is sounding like a good idea.

gotegenks wrote:could we get a separate section for contests whose deadlines have passed and are just waiting on results? or would that take too much moderation...
That concern seems to be covered by the contest results directory sticky...which is sporadically updated. It would involve quite a bit of moderation, and I don't see it being kept better than the sticky is currently.

gotegenks wrote:introduction category that includes the thread towards the top? that suggestions been said before but i figure it might as well be represented while we're on the subject.
I'll have to look at the various threads on that later, but an introduction forum has never really had wide support. At our current level of activity, a sticky thread is doing fine.

gotegenks wrote:how about moving general music out of general discussion and just having em called "Off Topic" and like, music discussion or something.
General Music is somewhat active, but we think it's better suited as a subforum at this point. If there's anywhere to put a subforum with hopes of little impact on activity, General Discussion would be that place.

gotegenks wrote:separating online contests/ics and convention contests? then you could definitely do away with org supported cons as those are all online so you could just sticky them if they need to be highlighted or put a link on the index page like we do now.
OSC also serves as an archive for events that have finished, like the VCAs.

gotegenks wrote:move opinion exchange to right under amv announcements, as the two go hand in hand somewhat and some people don't enter conventions or contests at all so it makes sense to me to have those before contest stuff.
I see your point, who else agrees with this?

gotegenks wrote:what is moderator drop box even for that site feedback doesn't cover? honest quesiton.
The mod drop box was for reporting posts before phpbb came out with the "report posts" feature (which I think was introduced in phpbb 3). It also serves as a place to report videos (non-anime, duplicates, stolen videos in the catalog, etc...). There was a time when most (if not all) moderators were hidden, so that forum was THE way to get a mod's attention.

gotegenks wrote:we should at least give org redesign the same (if not better) treatment than org supported contests and give it a link on the index page to highlight it.
I think Bashar put it quite well. I think this may also fall along some of the same lines that I Fight For The Users was getting at in the "Org Propoganda" thread.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 7:57 pm

i wasn't suggesting forum separation for the sake of archival, it was more for the sake of cleaning up the contests sections for people that wanna enter cons so they don't have to sift through tons and tons of threads about cons whose deadlines have passed, because most coordinators don't update their thread titles or original posts to say "deadline passed!"

this problem could also be solved by including in that thread a list of all the contests whose deadlines haven't passed, then people could just go there instead of looking at every single thread for what they wanna enter. assuming they're entering somewhat blindly and not by region or anything like that.
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Re: Forum reorganization (give your feedback)

Postby gotegenks » Wed May 30, 2012 8:00 pm

gotegenks wrote:because most coordinators don't update their thread titles or original posts to say "deadline passed!"

actually, if you include threads with deadlines in their title, it's around half, but it's still exhausting reading through them all and then analyzing the numbers and keeping track of which thread you're looking at now and what today's date is and if you've already looked at that thread before and a bunch of other things.
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