60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

This forum is for video and audio help and discussion.
Foristality
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:00 pm
Org Profile

60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Foristality » Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:57 pm

Is there any benefit from major benefit in editing with 60 fps?

I noticed when beats are really faster, you can sync a lot more accurate with 60 fps rather than 30 fps

Anyone else edits with 60 fps?

User avatar
TEKnician
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:40 pm
Status: Not reading the spoilers or manga
Location: Smack in the middle of the Pacific Ocean
Org Profile

60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby TEKnician » Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:40 pm

"Not I" said the fish.

But I can't shake the feeling that it's going to fuk something up.
Almost as hard as fighting a Holy Paladin.

User avatar
irriadin
BUBBLES!
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:59 pm
Status: I fight for my friends
Location: PA
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby irriadin » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:24 pm

The only guy I know who edits in 60fps is this dude: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... _id=222270

Foristality
Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:00 pm
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Foristality » Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:54 pm

Does anyone know the framerate for the Decoy ops first technique beat?.

It is really fast super. I was thinking that its 60 fps

Mister Hatt
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:26 am
Status: better than you
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Mister Hatt » Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:48 am

They're all dumb because the brain can't distinguish sync issues at anything over 10fps (ie 100ms frame/sample). The only reason we use higher framerates is smoothness of motion hax, and because of the electrical grid frequencies prevalent in analogue display units.

User avatar
TEKnician
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:40 pm
Status: Not reading the spoilers or manga
Location: Smack in the middle of the Pacific Ocean
Org Profile

60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby TEKnician » Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:10 pm

Although you CAN keep your eyes on the audio spikes in your meter when skimming frame by frame, like I do.

Looking for a peak db wavelength can be the bass/drum hit and thus marks the place where you can start your video clip.

Other than that, it is close to impossible to match it up with softer parts of the song when doing so.

You should probably just stick with 30fps and round to the nearest frame when syncing. It'll still look/sound good (granted, you are a good enough editor to execute it well). Less converting to worry about.
Almost as hard as fighting a Holy Paladin.

Mister Hatt
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:26 am
Status: better than you
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Mister Hatt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:34 am

30fps and 60fps are both stupid seeing as neither is a multiple of the FILM rate. Why not at least use something that can be safely rendered if you want high framerates? My previous point about anything more than 10fps being useless for audio sync still stands though.

User avatar
Eake4
Australian Zeus
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:15 am
Status: Doing something useless again
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Eake4 » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:24 am

I edit 60fps sometimes only because my video feels too laggy and the need the sync neccessities are okay with both 30 and 60
Image

User avatar
Cannonaire
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:59 pm
Status: OVERLOAD
Location: Oregon
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Cannonaire » Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:12 am

Mister Hatt wrote:30fps and 60fps are both stupid seeing as neither is a multiple of the FILM rate. Why not at least use something that can be safely rendered if you want high framerates? My previous point about anything more than 10fps being useless for audio sync still stands though.

As far as AMVs are concerned, one thing to think about is how much you will be timescaling. I tend to edit at film rate most of the time, but some of my videos would likely turn out just as well if I edited them in video rate, etc. for cases in which I timescale a lot. The actual motion in pretty much every older anime and many newer ones is only 12fps anyway. If you only want to use unique motion frames, you'll be cranking the playback rate up to double.

tl;dr framerate doesn't matter much if you pay attention and tweak your frame placement well.
Image Think millionaire, but with cannons. || Resident Maaya Sakamoto fan.

User avatar
Phantasmagoriat
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:26 pm
Status: ☁SteamPunked≈☂
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Tue May 01, 2012 1:05 pm

I actually find fps doesn't make a huge difference with timing, but rather what's more important is to make your synch patterns consistent with the patterns in the music. For instance, if you have 5 beats in a row *dum-dadum-dadum*, and you synch it using 5 cuts, you DON'T space them 5 cuts evenly spaced apart. It would be one cut followed by a slightly longer pause followed by two groups of two cuts. If the group of cuts is 1/60th of a second off, the difference is going to be negligible because the viewer is more focused on the pattern of timing than anything else. So, while precision is nice, the most important thing is to make your synch patterns as a group match the music.

That being said, 30fps and 60fps are good for achieving smooth motion since (in North America) your monitor refresh rate is 60Hz (which is usually related to your wall socket clock-rate, like Hatt said.) However it is only going to pay off if *all* your frames are unique. In anime, that's almost unheard of since anime is ~24fps with most of those being duplicates as well. The only ways to get truly 30-60 unique frames in one second is to remove your duplicates via decimation which effectively speeds up your footage... or just speed up your footage in your editor (Like I did when I made "Awakened" back in 2007), which may or may not give the effect you want. The other way is via frame-interpolation through something like Twixtor or AviSynth's MVTools.

Foristality wrote:Does anyone know the framerate for the Decoy ops first technique beat?.
It is really fast super. I was thinking that its 60 fps
Naruto's Technique Beat was not 60fps. It was 24fps. Which is about what it should be [23.976...]
So, if you are concerned about 60fps timing... don't be.

irriadin wrote:The only guy I know who edits in 60fps is this dude: http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members ... _id=222270
JCD

So, anyway. Yeah, focus on the editing itself.
Image
Org Profile | AMVGuide | Phan Picks! | THE424SHOW | YouTube | "Galactic Escape"

"Effort to Understand; Effort to be Understood; to See through Different Eyes."

User avatar
mirkosp
The Absolute Mudman
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:24 am
Status: (」・ワ・)」(⊃・ワ・)⊃
Location: Gallarate (VA), Italy
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby mirkosp » Tue May 01, 2012 2:21 pm

JCD just speeds up instead of interpolating. It's entirely different.
He also mostly uses 48-50fps, though he's done 59.94 too.
Image

User avatar
Phantasmagoriat
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:26 pm
Status: ☁SteamPunked≈☂
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Tue May 01, 2012 3:10 pm

mirkosp wrote:JCD just speeds up instead of interpolating. It's entirely different.
He also mostly uses 48-50fps, though he's done 59.94 too.
I never said he interpolated frames. And yes, I know the speedup method is entirely different... since I was probably the first editor to ever implement 60fps speedups in an AMV... that I know of... as described above...
Image
Org Profile | AMVGuide | Phan Picks! | THE424SHOW | YouTube | "Galactic Escape"

"Effort to Understand; Effort to be Understood; to See through Different Eyes."

User avatar
mirkosp
The Absolute Mudman
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:24 am
Status: (」・ワ・)」(⊃・ワ・)⊃
Location: Gallarate (VA), Italy
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby mirkosp » Tue May 01, 2012 3:56 pm

But Alan had been working on 58008 since 2006! :o
Image

User avatar
Phantasmagoriat
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2006 11:26 pm
Status: ☁SteamPunked≈☂
Contact:
Org Profile

Re: 60 fps vs 30 fps in amvs.

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Tue May 01, 2012 4:30 pm

Hmm... that's very interesting since, at the time, I remember asking him to look over Awakened before releasing it.

Maybe Zarx had all these clips collected, and thought: "How can I fit more boob into this video?"
Maybe after seeing my vid, he was like "That would totally work! Double the amount of boob per second!" :awesome:
Maybe I'm just making things up,
but I can totally see that happening...
Maybe.
Image
Org Profile | AMVGuide | Phan Picks! | THE424SHOW | YouTube | "Galactic Escape"

"Effort to Understand; Effort to be Understood; to See through Different Eyes."


Return to “Video & Audio Help”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests