Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:02 am

Well Sukunai, morons can completely buy into the digital distribution with lower overall quality while us disc based buyers can enjoy the full quality Blu-ray has to offer ;)! Despite popular belief by many uneducated people, digital distribution will never have the bandwidth available in our lifetime so that consumers can get the same quality on disc based solutions via streaming or digital distribution (unless you compare it to DVDs). Despite the advancing technology, the lack of consistent upgrades to the network backbone in the United States, a bottleneck will eventually be hit to slow things down.

Let's also not forget about importing anime might become impossible if digital distribution became the only way in which media was distributed. Also, you must realize, DRM WILL ALWAY BE THERE! Disc based solutions are the best way to avoid constant upgrades that will lock the videos you paid for so that you can only use it the way they allow.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby Sukunai » Wed Sep 07, 2011 7:43 am

I said download the 'DVD', not some crappy format file copy eh. Not sure if that aspect was missed.

I suppose though, not all of us have access to decent newsgroups and decent ISPs that try to tell us that 60 gigs a month (like those lying bastards at Bell Canada) is adequate for internet service in 2011.

I am with Teksavvy though, and downloading actual dvds is no real problem. Although, it's been a few years since I had enough reason to want anything in dvd format any more. Well on disc more correctly. It's easier to just store the data as emulated discs on cheap multi TB drives.

But as for the comment about file quality, I have never had issues with 'file quality' if I wanted that quality.

Not overly taken with blueray downloads though. But that's time factor not file size issues. Just not enough things out there I want in better than dvd quality. I routinely rip out the extras and extraneous extra clutter off of dvd downloads, but that's mainly because 4.7 discs are cheaper than dual layer discs. Although with the rise of blueray, it has become moot. Nothing much is released in non blueray these days. Glad I was able to get my stash when dvd was still the rule. Everyone seems to only upload blueray these days.

Digital distribution though IS the norm, might as well get used to it. Just bought the expansion to BBC Battle Academy Market Garden (PC game from Slitherine) last night via digital download. Why pay 25 bucks for a jacket and a case when I can get just the file for 15 bucks and put it on a disc is I desperately need to myself.

l33tmeatwad the only one losing this argument is you :) Just ask my friend that has a blueray burner and seems quite happy to download blueray anime.
Although I do concur about the bandwidth. With government butt screwing Joe internet user, and the corporations telling us limited bandwidth is actually ok, there's a lot of very legit business that is fighting an uphill battle. Netflix, and the movie makers and anyone with anything worth watching, that stuff is all legit marketplace services that require proper bandwidth.

Time the asses realized that it is not just pirates in need of good high performance internet services.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:13 am

Sukunai wrote:I said download the 'DVD', not some crappy format file copy eh. Not sure if that aspect was missed.

I suppose though, not all of us have access to decent newsgroups and decent ISPs that try to tell us that 60 gigs a month (like those lying bastards at Bell Canada) is adequate for internet service in 2011.

I am with Teksavvy though, and downloading actual dvds is no real problem. Although, it's been a few years since I had enough reason to want anything in dvd format any more. Well on disc more correctly. It's easier to just store the data as emulated discs on cheap multi TB drives.

But as for the comment about file quality, I have never had issues with 'file quality' if I wanted that quality.

Not overly taken with blueray downloads though. But that's time factor not file size issues. Just not enough things out there I want in better than dvd quality. I routinely rip out the extras and extraneous extra clutter off of dvd downloads, but that's mainly because 4.7 discs are cheaper than dual layer discs. Although with the rise of blueray, it has become moot. Nothing much is released in non blueray these days. Glad I was able to get my stash when dvd was still the rule. Everyone seems to only upload blueray these days.

Digital distribution though IS the norm, might as well get used to it. Just bought the expansion to BBC Battle Academy Market Garden (PC game from Slitherine) last night via digital download. Why pay 25 bucks for a jacket and a case when I can get just the file for 15 bucks and put it on a disc is I desperately need to myself.

l33tmeatwad the only one losing this argument is you :) Just ask my friend that has a blueray burner and seems quite happy to download blueray anime.
Although I do concur about the bandwidth. With government butt screwing Joe internet user, and the corporations telling us limited bandwidth is actually ok, there's a lot of very legit business that is fighting an uphill battle. Netflix, and the movie makers and anyone with anything worth watching, that stuff is all legit marketplace services that require proper bandwidth.

Time the asses realized that it is not just pirates in need of good high performance internet services.

I suppose I should have been more specific, digital distribution for movies/TV isn't going to stick as well as it did for music and games. Part of the problem is the shattered market and the lack of featuers, as well as lowered quality. Games have the advantage of being rendered later, the only thing that suffers is the cut scenes, which most people skip anyways. When it comes to music, it's not quite as large and DRM isn't much of an issue anymore. When it comes to getting the entertainment to the device you need, music is much easier to "burn and use" to most consumers, where as for movies, most consumers don't know where to begin. You will always have audiophiles buying CDs, the same way you will have videophiles buying disc copies, because the quality of LEGAL copies just won't match (due to restrictions, I know you can get full quality illegal copies from newsgroups). I think you don't quite understand how the SYSTEM works, illegal copies aren't restricting quality with red tape like the legal distribution methods are.

Also, you need to understand, the limited bandwidth isn't just an ISP being mean, the bandwidth a company has is shared with ALL of it's user based, but currently not everyone is using as much as someone like you. If everyone was downloading Blu-ray ISOs every night, the overall speed the the entire network in the US would slow to a crawl, due to the lack of upgrades needed to keep up with the demand for bandwidth. ISPs right now are panicking because services like Netflix are starting to max out their bandwidth, and the only way to fix that without spending money to upgrade things is to tell people they can't have as much as they want :(.

Now, with all that said, I do see digital distribution more prevalent, but I still see more people sticking to disc based solutions for movies for logistical reasons. Keep in mind that for most consumers, it's easier to pop in a movie into a player hooked up to a TV rather than figuring out how to get that computer data onto the TV. I know services like Amazon have apps on TVs, but most consumers don't know what to latch onto to move on due to the flooding of different options.

Aside from those things, many people still go to the stores to buy things, and the fact is, it's much easier to sell a "actual product" to someone with it in their hand than to sell them some "card or code". There is also the fact that most movies online don't really go "on sale" as much as they are in the physical stores. As for cutting out the middle man, that isn't really true, iTunes and Amazon get cuts out of the media they sell. There are also economic reasons as to why more digital distribution of media could cause more damage to the companies offering it if everyone switched to online shopping only (we see a small scale version of this with book stores closing doors), but that's another discussion all together (if consumers have no jobs, they have no money to buy things ;)).

There are many reasons that things work the way they do and the quality is capped because of red tape, not because of available technology.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby Sukunai » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:39 am

"Also, you need to understand, the limited bandwidth isn't just an ISP being mean, the bandwidth a company has is shared with ALL of it's user based, but currently not everyone is using as much as someone like you. If everyone was downloading Blu-ray ISOs every night, the overall speed the the entire network in the US would slow to a crawl, due to the lack of upgrades needed to keep up with the demand for bandwidth. ISPs right now are panicking because services like Netflix are starting to max out their bandwidth, and the only way to fix that without spending money to upgrade things is to tell people they can't have as much as they want :(."

Ding ding ding ding, we have a winner. Welcome to the reason so many are so willing to shit all over people like Bell Canada for doing whatever they can to fucking lie about the truth. They blame a lot of things for the problems and they stonewall and in the end, they just want to be greedy and never invest in taking the infrastructure into the future. They just want business as usual ie they spend nothing, you continue to pay them too much for too little and stfu and stop asking for more.

In 2005, maybe it was closer to be more the fault of more people that were just plain downloading too much too illegally. That was then this is now, and frankly most of what I downloaded in 2005 was stale old movies I simply wanted digitally, that I had on crappy vhs and no one wanted to sell me realistically. No one in their right mind wants to pay premium for media that is older than the downloader.

Today though, our entirely legal, entirely legit needs, need every bit as much bandwidth as anything that was ever questionable. Yet, the big corporations would rather sit on their hands, continue making profits, off of old tech and not do anything to change anything. Netflix is frankly not really welcome by the corporations, as it threatens the old way.

I just watched Blockbuster video go down the drain because the old way is really and truly no longer viable. People WILL pick to get their video the easy way over the old way. Yes there are still people that will do it the old way, but the same people will also pick the easy way too. And in most cases, if they make the easy way actually work properly, they might just as easily dump the old way more so. The proof is how in my town, all of the video rental stores are GONE!. There is not one actual video rental store in town now, where before 10 years ago there was several. When Blockbuster closes the doors atr the end of the month, the ONLY choice of this town of 30k will be to buy it in Zellers or a couple of places like Canadian Tire where you might find it on a rack near the cash check out.

All Netflix really needs, is BETTER communications infrastructure to be capable of being made better. It can't use what isn't there.
I can find 5 bucks easily on an almost daily basis. If the source companies ie the movies studios, were to make their WHOLE catalogue available for top quality download for the price of a routine rental, damn right I'd be browsing their libraries and having a field day.
Damn right though that thieves would continue to do what they have been doing since we mastered fire.
Theft is likely one of the oldest human activities, even older than prostitution, because originally men didn't need to ask you eh.

But big corporations simply don't like change.
I say screw the MPAA the RIAA, and Bell Canada, and any major entity that simply won't enter the world I live in.
I'm perfectly willing to look any judge in the face and flat out tell them, I BOUGHT every last bit of data I ever downloaded fair and square regardless of the stupid disclaimers some services try to hide behind. Disclaimers don't mean squat. Bell Canada sells to Teksavvy and Teksavvy sells to me, and I use the power they sold me. In the end, the MPAA and the RIAA and anyone with digital woes, is being ripped off by Bell Canada to name just one. But i'd like to see the MPAA for instance stand a chance for long in a court room with people that have that much money eh. Not the same as dragging grandma Smith into court because she was caught being responsible for things her grandson downloads at her place.

If you look online close enough, the ONLY victories being won by groups like the MPAA and the RIAA is when they find a nobody that can't defend themselves. I for instance watched what happened to Newzbin last year. Not that it did anything. Someone merely added the numeral 2 to the name, and made a complete farce out of the court 'victory'.

Society, ie the corporations ie people like the MPAA, or more close to us here, the anime industry, will only move forward when they pull their heads out of their collective asses.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby TEKnician » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:38 pm

Movies sold and distributed on a USB drive? :awesome:

Digital format, comes with all the extras, easier to get, easier to store, easier to not complain about "OMG, I HAVE SO MANY DVDS I NEED TO GET RID OF!" (easier to rip? :book: )
I've seen dvd players and blu rays with USB inputs on them, maybe we should make use of them!
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby Sukunai » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:11 pm

When you consider the cost of the physical item, is almost nothing, its the cost to market the physical item that hurts the process.

I wish movies and all forms of video, could tap into the success of Steam which is doing so well for gaming that a friend was remarking Steam has become so big, it is in danger of becoming an illegal monopoly which while funny sounding, was a valid remark all the same.

I wonder, how much money would say Sony make, if they sold any movie that they had, for a 1 dollar download via a service like Steam.
There comes a point, when risking downloading dangerous illegal copies is not as good as downloading legal copies for peanuts.

If 20 million people downloaded a 1 dollar movie file, that's still an easy 20 million.
If they made it a 5 dollar file, no worse than a rental, that's 100 million. Not a bad return considering downloads can be free of most of the lost money leeched away from the source through middle man retailers.

I often think the industry is simply not bright enough to make adequate use of the internet.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby TEKnician » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:50 pm

*enthusiastic voice*

"INTRODUCING: FLASH MOVIES! MOVIES ON A FLASH DRIVE! EASILY PLUG-IN TO YOUR USB-COMPATIBLE DVD OR BLU RAY PLAYER AND WATCH THE MOVIE APPEAR INSTANTLY! NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT SCRATCHED DISCS OR BULKY COVERS. WANT TO WATCH YOUR MOVIE ON YOUR COMPUTER? PLUG N' PLAY WITH EASE! AND FOR OUR BIG DEBUT, THE FIRST MOVIE WE'RE GONNA PUT ON OUR FLASH MOVIE IS SUMMER WARS. WE'RE BIG FANS OF ANIME, SO IF YOU ORDER RIGHT NOW, WE'LL THROW IN FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST: BROTHERHOOD (BLU RAY QUALITY) COMPLETE COLLECTION AT HALF PRICE! SO ODER NOW! AHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!"

*roll credits*
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby l33tmeatwad » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:11 am

The_TEKnician wrote:Movies sold and distributed on a USB drive? :awesome:

Digital format, comes with all the extras, easier to get, easier to store, easier to not complain about "OMG, I HAVE SO MANY DVDS I NEED TO GET RID OF!" (easier to rip? :book: )
I've seen dvd players and blu rays with USB inputs on them, maybe we should make use of them!

Flash drives would be step backwards as it costs more than the disc, so you might as well just distribute the disc. If you are going to do a digital file to get off the disc, you could still do a Blu-ray that allows you to rip it on to your PC (which is actually one of the future "plans" for Blu-ray, the ability to get a digital copy from some random server? I'm not too sure on the specifics, but it's different than the current "digital copy" way things are being done).
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby TEKnician » Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:58 pm

l33tmeatwad wrote:Flash drives would be step backwards as it costs more than the disc, so you might as well just distribute the disc.

Buy the DVDs...got it. OH WAIT, I'M ALREADY DOING THAT!!!! :awesome:
Sukunai wrote:its the cost to market the physical item that hurts the process.

bullseye. ADVERTISING IS EVERYTHING. "What you don't know won't hurt you, but what if you get cut? You don't even know what a band-aid is!"
Sukunai wrote:If 20 million people downloaded a 1 dollar movie file, that's still an easy 20 million.

Thats assuming 20 million people in North America even know of it. In regards to anime, i highly doubt that there are even close to 20million fans.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby Sukunai » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:48 pm

Never suggested there was 20 million anime fans, well actually that is not too impossible if you consider global market.

I was mostly thinking common mainstream film releases in that example.

The thing is, you CAN make a lot of money if the offer is impossible to resist.
I'm just not going to steal a file if it is available legit for a lousy buck.

Sure there are people out there that are incurably fucking cheap swine that simply couldn't even offer you a lousy buck. I'm not one of them.

My main beef is convenience. It is NOT convenient to go all the way to Blockbuster and find they have nothing interesting at the moment. Not all of us want the current top 10 selection. What would amuse me, is browsing a massive catalogue of films. It would be like a kid in a candy shop.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby TEKnician » Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:54 pm

Sukunai wrote:I'm just not going to steal a file if it is available legit for a lousy buck...My main beef is convenience. It is NOT convenient to go all the way to Blockbuster and find they have nothing interesting at the moment. Not all of us want the current top 10 selection. What would amuse me, is browsing a massive catalogue of films. It would be like a kid in a candy shop.

rightstuf.com :ying:

/beef

Or are you still talking about mainstream american movies? I'm sorry, i kept thinking we were still talking about anime...
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby Sukunai » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:02 pm

Currently the example is primarily mainstream feature films.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby TEKnician » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:17 pm

/topic
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby Sukunai » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:28 pm

At the end of the month here in town Blockbuster closes its doors for good. Poof gone.

The next day, all that will remain for video rental, is two corner convenience stores that have something like a couple of 100 items grand total, consisting mainly of schlock, no correction, entirely schlock.

There will be NO rental options in a town of 30k as of well right now actually as Blockbuster is only selling, the rentals are over.

That includes anime of course.

Is this a dark moment for anime though? Well when you consider that last year, when Blockbuster was not in emminent danger of ceasing to exist, the anime in the store was no better than a wretched selection of cliche junk already old news before the start of the century.

On the other hand, you can always check in with Netflix which apparently has all the anime you can stomache.
Or you can do Crunchyroll which provides anime that's actually NEW as well.
If the show is good enough to watch more than once, and you want to buy it, it's on sale on the internet if you seriously care.

Anime is not dying, and that's the bottom line.
Whether it is being marketed in an inspired fashion though, that might be up for debate.
It seems to have experienced some moments where the old way has led to some old companies rolling over and expiring.

Adapt or die.
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Re: Why Anime is Alive [and well] in North America

Postby l33tmeatwad » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:53 pm

I will say this, rental is different than owning. For me, rental digitally at a lower quality I don't mind, but I prefer the quality of Blu-ray as opposed to the lower streaming quality. Also, just something to think about, if your house burns down, you can't really claim digital content that is lost, but physical media you can.
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