2011 VCA General Discussion

This is a forum for discussion of the 2011 AnimeMusicVideos.org Viewers' Choice Awards.

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby Nya-chan Production » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:17 am

MimS wrote:It can't be a great idea.
Watching a vid, you're not saying "hm, that lenght was cool", you just consider what's inside.
Or if there is "best short", there has to be "best long" and The Epic of Griffith would prolly win (reading org people ops on it) but I don't see anybody consider it as a point making the vid good. I would even say mentioning it to someone, you prolly say that there's no need to be afraid of the lenght.

I may be biased, because two of my vids are in that category and I propagate this style every way possible, but I'll try to voice my view on this. Btw, I liked Reggie's vid too, watched it completely through and it was a deserved view.
There is no "bad idea" or "great idea" in this - it's just normal. It's the same as genres, any video isn't better or worse objectively, because it's action/romance/short/long/effectsy/whatever. It can be poorly executed, but that's something different, and it can be not to your liking, but that's subjective.
(Btw, the Storytelling is normal category too, because every video contains 0-1 of better or worse interpreted storytelling, but there's a problem with VERY high subjectivity in this category, which leads to conflicts ;x )
As for the "Long video" category - I would like to see something like that too. I think that people who make very short videos (where you have to have clear concept and superb execution to express your idea) or very long videos (where you have to keep viewers attention with the concept and execution as well) should be supported in any way possible, because there's always enough of 2-3 minutes long videos.

To sum it up - length of the video doesn't say that the videos is good/bad, as the genre doesn'T say that. All it is is the sorting point and there are good and bad short videos and there are good and bad long videos. The point of VCAs is for the people to tell us which short and long videos are the good ones.

MimS wrote:Lenght isn't a matter point in editing. In addition, if it's good and short, you will regret this lenght like "Need moar, why is it so short?".

Anyway, the fact there weren't even enough vid to vote for in semi-finals seems enough to me.
There was no issue like that with "Best Storytelling" last year, nobody needed more explanation about it!

Just my op about that...

Well, here I think you're wrong, length IS a point of editing. I suppose Reggie wouldn't be content if the audio was cut to half and some ideas have to be expresseed in short time to have more impact. For one example, "Kanon in Five Seconds" would be just weird if it lasted 2 minutes ;x
Oh, and I'd take "Need moar, why is it so short?" over "Boring, why is it so long?" anyday :> It's the intention of the author, so the viewers usually see it differently, but s/he wanted it "this" long.

As for the why there were not enough videos, it was already mentioned - the videos were not filtered, so you had to remember which videos from 4500 ones were shorter than 60 seconds - and that's not an easy thing to remember. Maybe, if this category survives, doki can make us some filter for that :>
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Nya-chan Production
The :< point of view
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Ward 7F
Status: White bracelet

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:41 am

There clearly weren't enough qualifying vids of quality to make a category out of it though. Granted, that hasn't stopped parody or no-effects for years, so why should this?

I'm honestly not so sure about the moderation applied to this category; either do it to everything, or leave it alone. A five minute video winning "Best Short video" isn't going to suddenly cause mass revelations about the nature of the VCAs. I'm pretty sure we all get it by now. :lol:
User avatar
BasharOfTheAges
Just zis guy, you know?
 
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Merrimack, NH
Status: Extreeeeeeeeeme

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby Nya-chan Production » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:42 am

BasharOfTheAges wrote:There clearly weren't enough qualifying vids of quality to make a category out of it though. Granted, that hasn't stopped parody or no-effects for years, so why should this?

I'm honestly not so sure about the moderation applied to this category; either do it to everything, or leave it alone. A five minute video winning "Best Short video" isn't going to suddenly cause mass revelations about the nature of the VCAs. I'm pretty sure we all get it by now. :lol:

But there is moderation in almost every other category, though anyone can overcome it by listing all of the categories when entering the video O.o
Maybe limiting the stuff to 90s instead of 60s would help, though.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Nya-chan Production
The :< point of view
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Ward 7F
Status: White bracelet

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby Ileia » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:30 am

While the category may not have worked out so well this year, I'm glad that new things are being tried. I think that's better then never straying outside the cut and paste version of the previous year.
User avatar
Ileia
CornDog Whisperer
 
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: On teh Z-drive, CornDog
Status: ....to completion

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:39 am

Nya-chan Production wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:There clearly weren't enough qualifying vids of quality to make a category out of it though. Granted, that hasn't stopped parody or no-effects for years, so why should this?

I'm honestly not so sure about the moderation applied to this category; either do it to everything, or leave it alone. A five minute video winning "Best Short video" isn't going to suddenly cause mass revelations about the nature of the VCAs. I'm pretty sure we all get it by now. :lol:

But there is moderation in almost every other category, though anyone can overcome it by listing all of the categories when entering the video O.o
Maybe limiting the stuff to 90s instead of 60s would help, though.

I mean manual moderation - going in and saying "hey, this video shouldn't be in this category even if it got votes" and doing something about it. That was actually done in this case. The genre check boxes are just self-selected filters, not moderation.
User avatar
BasharOfTheAges
Just zis guy, you know?
 
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Merrimack, NH
Status: Extreeeeeeeeeme

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby MimS » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:30 pm

Nya, most of what you say doesn't justifty the category for me, you just say things about the author doing the vid not the person watching the vid according to me.
And well, this is Viewer Choice's Awards and not Maker Choice's Awards...
If "Use of Special Effects" is a genre to me "Lenght" isn't because watching a vid, you may notice some technical stuffs tried by the author making it interesting when lenght doesn't.
You mention "Kanon in 5 secs" : Seriously, I only see org people to think of it as a vid to remember. For sure, I admit, being 2 minutes long, it would be a pain, however, for what it is, it's only something done by someone bored at a particular time which is funny to watch once and then forget...
...
I mean, it's 5 seconds long, how can u even think of it as a *real* AMV?

About :
Nya-chan Production wrote:As for the why there were not enough videos, it was already mentioned - the videos were not filtered, so you had to remember which videos from 4500 ones were shorter than 60 seconds - and that's not an easy thing to remember. Maybe, if this category survives, doki can make us some filter for that :>


I prolly like the Storytelling example but...
I don't think there is any filter for this category, is there? And people have no problem about remembering what could be interesting in it even if you're right saying there's subjectivity...

Ileia wrote:While the category may not have worked out so well this year, I'm glad that new things are being tried. I think that's better then never straying outside the cut and paste version of the previous year.


Obviously. I do think the same, I just have my op about some choices. Also, talking about that :
Why did admins add Best Short and not Best Psychedelic when we're were many people asking for it to be created?
Image
Image
User avatar
MimS
Baguette Master
 
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Paris
Status: With all other Seleçãos

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby Nya-chan Production » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:08 pm

MimS wrote:Nya, most of what you say doesn't justifty the category for me, you just say things about the author doing the vid not the person watching the vid according to me.
And well, this is Viewer Choice's Awards and not Maker Choice's Awards...
If "Use of Special Effects" is a genre to me "Lenght" isn't because watching a vid, you may notice some technical stuffs tried by the author making it interesting when lenght doesn't.
You mention "Kanon in 5 secs" : Seriously, I only see org people to think of it as a vid to remember. For sure, I admit, being 2 minutes long, it would be a pain, however, for what it is, it's only something done by someone bored at a particular time which is funny to watch once and then forget...
...
I mean, it's 5 seconds long, how can u even think of it as a *real* AMV?


Nya-chan Production wrote:To sum it up - length of the video doesn't say that the videos is good/bad, as the genre doesn't say that. All it is is the sorting point and there are good and bad short videos and there are good and bad long videos. The point of VCAs is for the people to tell us which short and long videos are the good ones.

That's IMO a reply.
Btw, if "Use of Special Effects" is a genre, because you notice technical stuff, then what about "Romance"? What about "Drama"? Do you notice how author built it up and worked with it? Then length is totally a genre too, because every author works with it and every viewer notices it (or doesn't, but you don't have to notice FX as well). Honestly, the best name for this category would be "Best Use of Time", but that's quite an obnoxious name, isn't it? :>
As for your last sentence, that has to be joke, right? I consider, say, godix's 1s video to be one of the finest AMVs ever made, because it totally tells you everything about its author and his editing style, while masterfully executed. Why should something NOT be a video because of length?

MimS wrote:About :
Nya-chan Production wrote:As for the why there were not enough videos, it was already mentioned - the videos were not filtered, so you had to remember which videos from 4500 ones were shorter than 60 seconds - and that's not an easy thing to remember. Maybe, if this category survives, doki can make us some filter for that :>


I prolly like the Storytelling example but...
I don't think there is any filter for this category, is there? And people have no problem about remembering what could be interesting in it even if you're right saying there's subjectivity...

Have you even looked into that category? People just nominated whatever they remembered from other categories. There is NO video in Storytelling ONLY - which is wrong, IMO, but I am unsure of what to do with that, because that's a tough thing to fix, really.

And obviously you can't do that with Best Short.
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
User avatar
Nya-chan Production
The :< point of view
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Location: Ward 7F
Status: White bracelet

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby Kitsuner » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:59 pm

Maybe it isn't as pronounced in AMVs, since the average video length is only three times the length of a short video, but I see the category as a strong parallel between the Academy Awards. Three of the Oscar's awards (Best Picture, Best Documentary, and Best Animated Feature) also reward short forms of each type. It's tricky to build a solid video that leaves a strong impact in less than a minute sometimes, just like it's tricky to stick to a concept and keep a viewer's attention throughout a full-length "feature" AMV.

MimS wrote:You mention "Kanon in 5 secs" : Seriously, I only see org people to think of it as a vid to remember. For sure, I admit, being 2 minutes long, it would be a pain, however, for what it is, it's only something done by someone bored at a particular time which is funny to watch once and then forget...
...
I mean, it's 5 seconds long, how can u even think of it as a *real* AMV?
It's ten seconds long, but this is exactly what I'm saying. Short videos aren't considered "real AMVs" by most viewers. I'd expect that this is the same reason the Academy separates short films from features. Shorts allow for concepts that would be boring in a feature to be made interesting, but compared against a full-length video or film, they don't stand a chance.
OtakuGray wrote:Sometimes anime can branch out to a younger audience and this is one of those times where you wish children would just go die.
Stirspeare wrote:<Stirspeare> Lopez: Vanquish my virginity and flood me with kit. ["Ladies..."]
User avatar
Kitsuner
Maximum Hotness
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Status: Top Breeder

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby MimS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:09 am

Nya-chan Production wrote:Honestly, the best name for this category would be "Best Use of Time", but that's quite an obnoxious name, isn't it? :>
As for your last sentence, that has to be joke, right? I consider, say, godix's 1s video to be one of the finest AMVs ever made, because it totally tells you everything about its author and his editing style, while masterfully executed. Why should something NOT be a video because of length?


It may be but it's completely different, there can be a "best use of time" in a 2-3 minutes vid also you know.
It isn't. As for kanon in 5 seconds, Godix's Higurashi stuff isn't a "real" vid to me, just a joke :uhoh:


Dr. Faux Pas wrote:It's ten seconds long, but this is exactly what I'm saying. Short videos aren't considered "real AMVs" by most viewers. I'd expect that this is the same reason the Academy separates short films from features. Shorts allow for concepts that would be boring in a feature to be made interesting, but compared against a full-length video or film, they don't stand a chance.


This...

Though : I'm not saying these short vids suck or that people don't have to watch them just that it's not AMV like I would define it.
Image
Image
User avatar
MimS
Baguette Master
 
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Paris
Status: With all other Seleçãos

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby MimS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:10 am

Also waiting for an answer about Best Psychedelic...
Image
Image
User avatar
MimS
Baguette Master
 
Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Paris
Status: With all other Seleçãos

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby godix » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:19 am

MimS wrote:Also waiting for an answer about Best Psychedelic...

Define psychedelic.

As for the whole short vid thing, personally I think categories should be based only on the video itself. Length is a side factor, not a real measurement of the video (as are several other categories I usually ignore). It's like if we had Best WMM video. Who gives a shit about factors like that. Is it a good video, yes/no. Beyond that, who really cares about length, effects, or other side factors?
Image
User avatar
godix
a disturbed member
 
Joined: 03 Aug 2002

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby Ileia » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:20 am

MimS wrote:Also waiting for an answer about Best Psychedelic...


Technically, more people asked for short than they did psychedelic. (Yes, I just went through the thread and counted). I do think that perhaps next year there should be a poll for the extra category, and for the theme. We don't use the polls enough here...
User avatar
Ileia
CornDog Whisperer
 
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Location: On teh Z-drive, CornDog
Status: ....to completion

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby NS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:31 am

People could vote on duplicate accounts and boost what they want.
ImageImage
User avatar
NS
I like pants
 
Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Status: Pants

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby JudgeHolden » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:33 am

I vote for Best NS Catagory next year!
ImageImageImageImage
User avatar
JudgeHolden
 
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
Location: The great white north (Minneapolis)
Status: Looking at you through your window!

Re: 2011 VCA General Discussion

Postby NS » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:36 am

There's some stiff competition.
ImageImage
User avatar
NS
I like pants
 
Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Status: Pants

PreviousNext

Return to 2011 AnimeMusicVideos.org Viewers' Choice Awards

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests