The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby godix » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:23 am

Warlike Swans wrote:I also think that people should be able to change how many stars they give a video, w/ only the most recent rating given being counted toward the stats

You can. If you have rated all the vids you've seen, that link will be a list of all videos you've watched and rated. Just click on the star rating and it'll clear it so you can enter a different rating.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby McDirty » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:52 pm

I actually have no useful suggestions to give so I apologize. :sweat:

But I do want to give a sincere appreciation to the org staff and everyone who's involved with the hard work of redesigning of the org. You guys are doing us all a huge service and I wish more people could give you more appreciation rather than bitch and moan. :D

I guess if I were to suggest something for the redesign, I would say go with "simplicity". One of the complaints I have with other AMV hosting sites such as Akross would be the mass clutter of things and the feeling that there's "too much" to go through. Grant it, the org in it's current state might as well already be in the simplest it can get. But perhaps the new look just might help things out.

Sorry for not suggesting anything useful. But I just wanted to thank all the hard work you guys put in and I'm excited for the new redesign. Keep it up. :up:
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby dj_ultima_the_great » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:30 am

JCD wrote:Un-related, but on-topic, one thing that desperately needs to go is mandatory star ratings. Giving out star ratings after 10 downloads just keeps me from downloading an AMV here but instead watching it on YT sooo often. To people who bitch about not getting any feedback otherwise: Just make your videos suck less. If the new design will make the QC and star options more prominent, they will get used more often automatically.


Wow, way to be elitist there. All videos deserve feedback, not just the good ones, and it's arrogant to think otherwise.

I'm bothered by the couple of occasions that I've seen in these threads where editors have suggested promoting our "bestsellers" (like getting rid of New Vid on the Block in favor of advertising the highest rated recent videos, for example) instead of focusing on the site content as a whole. This isn't a masterpiece gallery. Get out of that mindset before we turn even more people away from our hobby.

Anyway, since many of my concerns have been addressed already, my suggestions are very small ones, and probably not relevant to the overall design.

- I'm not sure why I'm still being directed to another page when I click Local on a video download page. It seemed logical when I was a non-donator, but didn't I pay money for increased functionality? Okay, so it's a one second wait instead of a ten second wait, but that adds up over time.* Moreover, it navigates me away from the video information page, which I could really use when saving the video, since "Movie_0001.wmv" is terribly unhelpful when trying to remember what the hell it was supposed to be when I go to watch it. (And just looking at my stars-yet-to-give on the main page doesn't help if it's something that I'm re-downloading, like right now, when I'm trying to reclaim my entire collection after an HDD crash.)

I think that this complaint is a part of a much larger concept that we've all been talking about in these threads: simplification. Why does uploading require so many steps? Why is there an extra page load to endure when downloading, even for donators? Why are there so many menu options on the members' main page when half of them could be (and should be) put on your profile? Things like that. What most people seem to be calling for is a sleeker, easier-to-use .org. Technically speaking, we could keep all of the current functions and still manage to trim away a lot of the fat cluttering up the site.

To be honest, I'm kind of indifferent to a redesign. As long as the .org keeps hosting new videos, I'll stick around - but I support anything that draws in more people to our hobby, so if this is the way to do it, then I guess I'm all for it.

I don't know if any of that was really helpful. It's late and I'm sort of just going stream-of-thought here. :roll:


- Jen

*I've downloaded 8245 Local videos. Most of those were as a non-donator, but even assuming that they were all from a donator's status - thus the one-second wait - I have wasted over two hours of my life minimum just clicking away to another page that shouldn't have been there to begin with.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:36 am

All videos do deserve feedback, and a high rating means nothing if we don't also give out enough low ones to accurately create a scale.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby Corran » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:27 am

dj_ultima_the_great wrote:
JCD wrote:Un-related, but on-topic, one thing that desperately needs to go is mandatory star ratings. Giving out star ratings after 10 downloads just keeps me from downloading an AMV here but instead watching it on YT sooo often. To people who bitch about not getting any feedback otherwise: Just make your videos suck less. If the new design will make the QC and star options more prominent, they will get used more often automatically.


Wow, way to be elitist there. All videos deserve feedback, not just the good ones, and it's arrogant to think otherwise.

I'm bothered by the couple of occasions that I've seen in these threads where editors have suggested promoting our "bestsellers" (like getting rid of New Vid on the Block in favor of advertising the highest rated recent videos, for example) instead of focusing on the site content as a whole. This isn't a masterpiece gallery. Get out of that mindset before we turn even more people away from our hobby.


I don't believe that certain videos deserve feedback more than others and am inclined to think JCD doesn't think this either. If a video is popular due to being considered "good" among a large swath of people, receiving favorable reception at a convention, or otherwise having the attention of large subset of users then it seems reasonable to expect that the video will garner more feedback than a video few people are aware of.

As such, how can this issue be addressed?
  • On a site with 144148 listed videos, 87981 of which are local, how can you guarantee that the majority of users will actively rate and comment on videos that have fallen to obscurity?
  • If the problem (videos not getting a fair share of attention) exists because users have a prevalent desire for "the latest and greatest", how do you change their mindset using site design and policy changes in order to increase their willingness to explore the catalog? Can you change this mindset?
  • Last month the ratio of (OPs + QC) to (downloads + streams) was 0.00968 If users largely only consume content, how do you increase feedback in general for the videos that people are already devoting their attention to?
  • How do you get users to watch "yet another" video with "done-to-death" sources or concepts?
  • In any system you devise that encourages public posting how can you keep the feedback meaningful to the editor? (editor-centric vs viewer-centric discussion/feedback) Should that even be a goal?

I personally have no specific ideas in mind, but I think the answer lies in some kind of reward system. Maybe using meaningful badges or achievements as incentive to participate in feedback mechanisms or site activities in general.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby EvaFan » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:48 am

Could do a "AMV of the day" on the front page, it would be randomly generated. Kind of like the spotlight except it doesn't only show the ones that are highly rated.

or on a larger scale AMVs of the week with 5-10 or so.

It's not a perfect solution but I'd probably end up giving them a preview at the very least. Might even find something I really like and wouldn't have found otherwise.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby JCD » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:52 am

Corran wrote:
dj_ultima_the_great wrote:
JCD wrote:Un-related, but on-topic, one thing that desperately needs to go is mandatory star ratings. Giving out star ratings after 10 downloads just keeps me from downloading an AMV here but instead watching it on YT sooo often. To people who bitch about not getting any feedback otherwise: Just make your videos suck less. If the new design will make the QC and star options more prominent, they will get used more often automatically.


Wow, way to be elitist there. All videos deserve feedback, not just the good ones, and it's arrogant to think otherwise.

I'm bothered by the couple of occasions that I've seen in these threads where editors have suggested promoting our "bestsellers" (like getting rid of New Vid on the Block in favor of advertising the highest rated recent videos, for example) instead of focusing on the site content as a whole. This isn't a masterpiece gallery. Get out of that mindset before we turn even more people away from our hobby.


I don't believe that certain videos deserve feedback more than others and am inclined to think JCD doesn't think this either. If a video is popular due to being considered "good" among a large swath of people, receiving favorable reception at a convention, or otherwise having the attention of large subset of users then it seems reasonable to expect that the video will garner more feedback than a video few people are aware of.

Hehe, I knew this could be misunderstood. My point on the bolded sentence was entirely focused on star ratings. There is hardly anything constructive about a video getting low star ratings, they are essentially saying the same thing. I can see the idea behind mandatory star ratings, to enforce feedback for videos which would otherwise not get any, but I fail to see how exactly that feedback is helpful to the creator in any way. If anything, low star ratings might be more discouraging than no feedback.

QC's (and opinions too) are already optional and a good way of giving quick, constructive feedback, their use should be enouraged (but by no means mandatory), and I use it whenever possible.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:52 am

To be fair, that same sentiment holds true for well written and constructive feedback as well. After you hear it a few times, hearing it again isn't really helpful either. That being the case, the role of the star scale system is to benefit the viewer - to let him know what the community has deemed 'worth his time' if he wishes to take the community's advice on such matters.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby ngsilver » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:16 pm

Personally, I'd rather see a like/dislike button rather then a star scale. Even if it was mandatory I wouldn't actually mind too much simply clicking one button of either like or dislike. Though I'd rather have the threshold larger. For me, I'm a kind of archiver when it comes to videos and like to download large groups of videos (sometimes into the 100s at once) and just sit down and watch them all in one large stint. Having to actively mark down a star every 10 or so just so I can keep DL'ing my batches gets rather annoying. I would prefer a non-mandatory system though.

Really, if the star scale is our there to help the viewer, just a simple scale of how many likes vs how many dislikes would be easier to understand. Heck, if you wanted to get fancy to can have a rating that is calculated based on likes/dislikes and total views. Not sure exactly how the math would work out, but essentially a (unique) view would then expect the viewer to vote like or dislike. If the viewer doesn't vote it's counted as neutral vote. If the viewer goes back later and marks like then that unique view becomes a like and the rating changes since the ratio changes.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby Fall_Child42 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:42 pm

ngsilver wrote:Personally, I'd rather see a like/dislike button.


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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby godix » Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:41 am

ngsilver wrote:Personally, I'd rather see a like/dislike button rather then a star scale.

I don't like or dislike most videos. I don't give a fuck about most videos, even after watching them. ESPECIALLY after watching them. The problem with like/dislike is that there is no 'go the fuck away, I've already forgotten the video you talentless hack' option.

Although I suppose I could only like videos that were worth keeping, but someone '3285 dislike, 4 like' doesn't seem exactly the sort of rating system the org should be encouraging.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby LittleAtari » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:13 am

godix wrote:
ngsilver wrote:Personally, I'd rather see a like/dislike button rather then a star scale.

I don't like or dislike most videos. I don't give a fuck about most videos, even after watching them. ESPECIALLY after watching them. The problem with like/dislike is that there is no 'go the fuck away, I've already forgotten the video you talentless hack' option.

Although I suppose I could only like videos that were worth keeping, but someone '3285 dislike, 4 like' doesn't seem exactly the sort of rating system the org should be encouraging.

honestly I hate the like and dislike feature of youtube. It gives a lot less feedback on the video and a lot of the time I don't feel comfortable liking a video if I think if it's an alright video because if I select dislike, it makes it seem like the video is terrible or something.

I think the Like and Dislike system is completely different than a star system and implies something else about the video. A star system can comment on the quality of the video whereas Like/Dislike system only says that you like it or not.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby Phantasmagoriat » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:40 pm

Keep in mind that by watching a video and not leaving a rating, that alone could be useful information.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby mirkosp » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:49 am

Phantasmagoriat wrote:Keep in mind that by watching a video and not leaving a rating, that alone could be useful information.

Yes, but users can vote for a video only once, but can preview (and download) it as many times as they want...
I'm honestly for keeping the stars as they are now. Perhaps changing something about them, but the x stars out of 5 is good, imho.
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Re: The Org Redesign - New Features and/or Function...

Postby JaddziaDax » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:29 pm

I also don't like the "like/dislike" options (or "yay/boo" as they do in little big planet 2) the reason for this being that I'm neutral on a lot of videos (and levels for that matter) and how am I to express that the video is just "ok"? if we were to go in the "like/dislike" option I'd like a neutral option as well.

Speaking of "achievements" I'm sure that's how they get more people to rate in lbp2, considering you get trophies and pins for rating levels... however this gets annoying if you have a neutral opinion on a level.. you want to rate, but you neither like nor dislike it.
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