Welcome to General Deception

This forum is for members to discuss topics that do not relate to anime music videos.

Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby Jadecavy » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:14 pm

NME wrote:Unfortunately Bashar, you weren't around for the old days of Off Topic so you have very little frame of reference. Social policy is the guidelines with which we conduct ourselves in social groups.

Now, in the wake the legal backlash from the lawyers representing Seether and Evanescence towards the org the social policy of this site changed incredibly around mid-to-late 2003. Phade sees one legal threat and shits himself and puts the org on lockdown. Crucial places to unwind were removed from the community and this spread this need to unwind behaviour into other parts of the community. The journal system sprung up in its place and filled some of the void but the journal system was fucking stupid and worthless as a forum: BUT THE THING IS PEOPLE STARTED USING IT AS ONE BECAUSE THEY WANTED A PLACE TO UNWIND THAT WASN'T SO ANAL ABOUT EVERYTHING AND ALLOWED THEM TO SPEAK THEIR MINDS (WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT HUH?)

Summer of 2004 time I had started an IRC channel along with Jace Tsunami and Taberis because we realized there needed to be a place to unwind and let loose if the forums were going to be on lockdown and even more restricted. Unfortunately Jace Tsunami handed the channel over to the org and teenage apathy on my and Taberis' part caused us to defer to the twenty-somethings who were put in charge. We were still ops but the IRC channel soon became locked down in the same ways that the forum had been the year previous.

An aside, Phade has spoken on the AIM room and for quite a while the link to it was removed from the org because "we have no control over what goes on in there." This is a position of fear. Phade is scared and most of you are too.

They're still on lockdown to this day btw and the proof of this is in the fact that the admins will open up General Discussion to us, but surround it with the term "discussion" as if legitimizing it and making it sound less like "off topic" will stop people from using it as a spamming ground or at worst a myriad of other things like GASP! Piracy! or GASP! PORNOGRAPHY! Then they bow to ridiculous peer pressure and block off posts that certain butthurt paying customers don't want others to see. Here's a wacky idea! If you don't want people seeing your picture on the internet DON'T POST YOUR PICTURE ON THE INTERNET.

Whoever complained and got that done has serious issues in taking responsibility for their own actions, when they expect another to come to their rescue purely because they made a decision to do something that they regret. Fucking childish behaviour, I wouldn't be surprised if it was some pussy-whipped male mod doing it for a girl he's got a thing for because he's a straight up led male. Must be one if he wants to work for this ridiculous regime.

The old org was a vibrant place full of creative people, and the imposition of the fearful new rules drove quite a few of them away. I was one of them. I come back and see nothing but old men who are grasping to define something they aren't fluent in. I come back and see circlejerking of proportions larger in girth and length than anything I was ever witness to before my absence. I come back to see a cliquishness I haven't seen since elementary school manifest. I bought into it too, so I'm no better, but I still see there is a problem with the way things are going that poisons this community and prospective new members.

Stop living in fear. Embrace the light of love.

EVOLVE, DAMN YOU, EVOLVE!

I was going to give you a nice long explanation as to why you're wrong, then I realized that you're not worth it, and I'd just be feeding the trolls. Because that's what you are. A big troll.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:19 pm

Are you quite done being a socially incompetent Jade?

Yeah, you are.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:32 pm

The Wind-Up thing was in 2005, not 2003. The no porn rules were here back before my join date on this account. You seem to have a really borked view of the facts.

You're projecting quite a bit here. You seem to want this place to be like /b/ for some reason and immediately think that having civil discussion like adults is driving all those people that never went onto the forums in the first place away. How does that even work? The fact that you can't see you're not making any sense here is kinda scary. These are your issues - nobody else's. I know it's cool to feel persecuted and all, but for fuck's sake, get some perspective.

Did you ever think that, perhaps, AMVs are what this site is about, and that if that's not why you're here than maybe it's you who's mistaken? OT's back again, but it's not, nor should it be, anything significant. There are general purpose forums all over the internet. Go to SA if you're into that sort of thing. Don't expect something made for a purpose to be anything more than that purpose just because it once was for you.

I'd try to use the analogy of not mixing work friends with real friends, but I have the distinct feeling it'd be lost on you.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby Jadecavy » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:33 pm

NME wrote:Are you quite done being a socially incompetent Jade?

Yeah, you are.

kthnx now gtfo
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:13 pm

BasharOfTheAges wrote:Words Words Words


OK, thanks for the clarification, while my dates were wrong there was a definite change in the tone of the site once Off Topic closed. IMO this drove people away who contributed more variety and creative ideas to the community and lessened the power of AMVs as a whole. This is a grievous mismanagement of something that you and I obviously care deeply about. However, it was still done out of fear on Phade's part. So why should we put up with people who have stalled the progress of this hobby and community due to their own insecurity? Why should we support them financially or with our words when they aren't doing their job right? What's the point in just accepting it and thinking things are alright when they aren't. There's no point. It's madness and sheep following a blind shepherd.

We're all projecting all the time man. In this case I'm projecting an understanding that you do not have and you are projecting an understanding that I do not have. As shown, my understanding is incomplete just as much as yours obviously is. If you can't follow my writing I would be happy to discuss this with you in a more present medium so you can understand. If you don't like this thread there's no reason for you to post in it anymore, but the offer to help you understand still stands.

I know this site is about AMVs, it always has been and always will be. That's why I'm here, because I love AMVs. This is why we're all here. The rules are counter-productive to the expansion and actual functioning of an artistic community. Maybe if we were talking about a theory or a technique, but art is so much more than just thoughts - it is emotion as well and in this realm people who are here on this site need a place to let loose. With this whimsical behaviour comes more freedom and less conformity of thought and in return this creates better art!

The IRC channel seems to have relaxed lately from what I've heard and that's positive, but there are still far too many idiotic power games being played in the IRC channel for any actual harmony to be produced.

Pay for a forum? Nah, never happen. I contribute the content of said forum and said forum should be willing to allow me space to express myself should I so want it. I don't believe in paying to share ideas, that's an affront to the nature of man's knowledge as far as I'm concerned.

I ain't payin' to express myself fully, if you will I pity you. It troubles me that you also seem to think a friend isn't just a friend. Not too sure who taught you how to be a person, but your upbringing was clearly different from mine.

I pity you and the shallowness with which you live. Please, get help.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby godix » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:22 pm

The last time I read a rant as disjointed as this, it ended with a congresswoman and a dozen others shot...
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:45 pm

Only in America.

Or Canada
Or Germany
Or France
Or Japan
Or Formosa
Or The Philippines
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby kenisama » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:37 am

I don't remember being forced to pay for anything on this site, or am I missing something? and I totally didn't donate for the simple reason of having a forum... cuz that would be idiotic. I started donating so I could feel like I was giving back to those that are providing this website FOR FREE. Nowhere does it state that you must donate to be a member (or is that the point I'm missing?).

Maybe one day when you own/operate your on website, you can make the rules |:>

In response to your response to Basha:

The "Donator" Forum is now the "General Discussion" forum (for all intents and purposes, it's a fucking "off-topic" forum) and it's open to the general public for the foreseeable future. That seems to stab a pretty big hole in your argument; hence, this thread has been allowed to carry on with your constant cut downs to anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint... but whatever, I'm probably just retarted :nose:
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby EvaFan » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:04 am

Jebus, I haven't noticed someone this actively paranoid in a long time. I suppose you are one of those ppl that has such warped views of everything resulting in nothing but conspiracy theories.

ITS THE a-m-v.org NEW WORLD ORDER. |:>
"The people cannot be [...] always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to [...] the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to public liberty. What country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned [...] that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."-Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby wurpess » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:21 am

Ok, maybe I'm missing something. So, I wasn't around for the old OT, or the getting rid of it, so I can't comment on that. But then a new OT was formed, but it was a donator feature. Then they turned it from donator feature to free for all members, but kept the old topics and posts in, so the 'General Discussion' forum would have direction and the non-donators coming into the party could be part of the discussions too. But you can still make new threads. Mods hid the older posts in 3 of the threads for security purposes. This site is still about AMVs. You can still talk about AMVs, make whatever AMVs you want, put them all in the site's catalog, use the site's hosting for most of them, and the resources and guides are still available. And have access to the entire forum, including General Discussion, which is all intact minus a few posts in 3 threads. All without paying a dime. Can you please explain how this is crippling creativity?

The thing I've noticed is people seem to look at the .org as the only site out there, or think that all of their AMVing should revolve around the .org. The .org's original purpose is to catalog every AMV ever made. Not necessarily to host them, not as a all-around fan made video site, not as a chat-room. Everything else the .org does other than catalog them and provide guides and resources is extra. The .org does AMVs. You want to freely and extensively socialize, go somewhere that specializes in that. Also, just because the .org doesn't allow you to upload certain videos, that doesn't mean you can't make them. You can make whatever the hell you want. You just may not be able to use the .org's hosting for it and may need to get more creative about getting it seen. And if the vid is 'so awsm!', and you 'worked so hard on it!', it should be worth the extra effort. ;) Idk, my 2 cents. Like I said, I might be missing something here. :roll:
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby guy07 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:05 pm

tl;dr
Has anyone seen the key for my back door? I can't seem to find it ...
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby kenisama » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:39 pm

wurpess wrote:Ok, maybe I'm missing something. So, I wasn't around for the old OT, or the getting rid of it, so I can't comment on that. But then a new OT was formed, but it was a donator feature. Then they turned it from donator feature to free for all members, but kept the old topics and posts in, so the 'General Discussion' forum would have direction and the non-donators coming into the party could be part of the discussions too. But you can still make new threads. Mods hid the older posts in 3 of the threads for security purposes. This site is still about AMVs. You can still talk about AMVs, make whatever AMVs you want, put them all in the site's catalog, use the site's hosting for most of them, and the resources and guides are still available. And have access to the entire forum, including General Discussion, which is all intact minus a few posts in 3 threads. All without paying a dime. Can you please explain how this is crippling creativity?

The thing I've noticed is people seem to look at the .org as the only site out there, or think that all of their AMVing should revolve around the .org. The .org's original purpose is to catalog every AMV ever made. Not necessarily to host them, not as a all-around fan made video site, not as a chat-room. Everything else the .org does other than catalog them and provide guides and resources is extra. The .org does AMVs. You want to freely and extensively socialize, go somewhere that specializes in that. Also, just because the .org doesn't allow you to upload certain videos, that doesn't mean you can't make them. You can make whatever the hell you want. You just may not be able to use the .org's hosting for it and may need to get more creative about getting it seen. And if the vid is 'so awsm!', and you 'worked so hard on it!', it should be worth the extra effort. ;) Idk, my 2 cents. Like I said, I might be missing something here. :roll:

I wish I had a like button... DAMN IT! MY CREATIVE PROCESS HAS BEEN INHIBITED!!!
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby NME » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:44 pm

There is a whole world out there that you are not aware of, one that you have complacently sipped away with the help of the bottle.

If you can look at the American government and stomach the imperialist empire expansion bullshit they dress up in wars for "democracy" or "peace" you are nothing but an easily led fool who is taken in by advertising and your own flawed perception. So was I, but there is no reason to wilfully exist in ignorance when it damages the life of you and everyone you care about by shackling you to a dying empire built on half truths.


The oddest thing about all this to me is that if Phade had just offered hosting for free he would have no reason to install puppets. It would have been a huge hit to his pocket book, but he obviously cares about this community enough to keep it alive. He's had a kid too, so dude is not hard up for cash. He's likely living a pretty comfortable middle class existence with his wife and lacks the time to devote to this site. Phade was never really a huge part of the ecosystem here anyway. If the videos were hosted free and there was no policy to charge for them there would be no possibility of legal action past cease and desist letters to remove the "copyright infringing material" or whatever the corporate scumfuck lawyers that work for the RIAA and MPAA term zeros and ones representing the newest Green Day single as.

But Phade started "donations". I guess there's a loophole here somewhere where if it's a "donation" it's not the same as "selling" a service (though it is obvious that those who pay for this site get increased functionality that helps them distribute their work and use the site more fully). With this donation model it is entirely possible that he could draw profit off this site. This complicates the legal matter entirely more than I am prepared or capable to outline in this post. But suffice to say, if he draws profit they likely have more of a case against him than if he doesn't.

Now the entire community is dying because it's been mismanaged into the ground. Everyone makes mistakes, but this site has not gotten better in my estimation since the restrictive policy came in. It lost quite a bit of its spirit, because ideas were constantly being shared by editors and non-editors alike. Without a place to unwind you lose the non-editors to other forums. If Phade were an artist he may understand this issue better, but he clearly isn't if he thinks this climate produces people who can express themselves fully when 90% of the community is caught up in playing schoolyard clique games and is unable to speak out because they're too afraid to make waves and get jumped on. FUCK. THAT. SHIT.

I only have as much information as I've been given. Unfortunately it's always been the policy of this site to run at an opaque level of transparency and with rules influenced by fear and uncertainty. So, odds of those in power holding themselves accountable for the mismanagement of the community or moronic policy decisions (censoring the word Youtube comes to mind) are slim to none. These policies hurt the site and unless they relax everywhere people will not stick around and the site will fade. It's as simple as that.

This is an artistic community. Running it like a library IS NOT APPROPRIATE.
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby CastielTheFallen » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm

I love how quick people are to paint you as a troll when you're bringing up valid arguments and reasoning with facts to back up your statements.

Welcome to the ORG, where critical thinking is punishable by death. Don't worry though, fall in with the masses and you'll be fine.
:roll:
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Re: Welcome to General Deception

Postby Otohiko » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:47 pm

NME wrote:This is an artistic community. Running it like a library IS NOT APPROPRIATE.


This is a catalogue of anime music videos. There's an awesome community grown around it, granted, but I don't think you can make this argument. It's run like a library because it is and was always intended as a library.

Personally, I'll admit that I have marginal interest in the library thing and my own responsibility here on the .org is the community. But at the same time you and anyone else have to acknowledge that the .org cannot and does not have a reason to exist if it is not a repository of AMVs and knowledge surrounding them. Otherwise it would be no more than a glorified studio, precisely the kind of clique that you seem to argue against by the way. Changes are coming to update the operation of the video database, and a lot of other changes to the site are on hold. In fact I was frankly surprised that General Discussion was opened when it was - because even for all my lobbying in its favour, I fully expected community changes to follow, not precede a code rewrite for the site as a whole.

There are many other sites run as studio sites. It seems that your demands for a community are better in line with what they offer.

Bottom line: the .org is a discussion board of an AMV database, not an AMV database of a discussion board. I don't see this changing, but that doesn't mean no community-friendly progress can be made.

Arashinome wrote:valid arguments and reasoning with facts to back up your statements.


I wish.
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