Voices as instruments?

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Voices as instruments?

Postby CorpseGoddess » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:10 pm

If I'm going to be using a song where people are singing, but using their voices as instruments and not a vehicle to deliver actual lyrics, does that qualify checking off the video as "instrumental" in the categories available?

I'm just curious as to people's notions about this.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby dj_ultima_the_great » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:19 pm

Something like this, you mean? It's a tough call, because the voice is considered an instrument, but I'm leaning towards "no." I think that if I watched a video with that kind of music that I wouldn't think of it as an instrumental.


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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby CorpseGoddess » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:33 pm

dj_ultima_the_great wrote:Something like this, you mean? It's a tough call, because the voice is considered an instrument, but I'm leaning towards "no." I think that if I watched a video with that kind of music that I wouldn't think of it as an instrumental.


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No, not quite like that. The song I'm going to be using isn't a cappella; it uses traditional instruments with the voices overlaid making sounds as well. But the sounds aren't actual words, they become part of the weave of the song.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:42 pm

When I did that with ...



I marked it as instrumental.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby CorpseGoddess » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:15 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:When I did that with ...



I marked it as instrumental.


Nope, not like that either. Here, I'll post the song I'll be using:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0PGK7a2IFo

The video itself is a great watch, as well.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby dj_ultima_the_great » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:24 pm

Oh, okay. Now I get what you're getting at. No, I wouldn't consider that instrumental. Just because the lyrics aren't actual words doesn't mean that they're not lyrics. I mean, ES Posthumus uses nonsensical syllables in their Piri Reis album to simulate a language, and Sigur Ros does it too with their "language" of Hopelandic. The "words" are being used to express a mood or emotion rather than meaning, and I think that your song falls into the same category. They are lyrics... technically.


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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:57 pm

See I would disagree, I think lyrics means words from a language.
and phonemes are the sounds that make up words but are not words themselves.
(i think it would be different if they were onomonipeia(sp?)


I would say it is instrumental, much like jazz-scat, or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby Fall_Child42 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:59 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:See I would disagree, I think lyrics means words from a language.
and phonemes are the sounds that make up words but are not words themselves.
(i think it would be different if they were onomonipeia(sp?)


I would say it is instrumental, much like jazz-scat, or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g


the second link should be this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWmOBX2K0WM
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby CorpseGoddess » Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:43 pm

Dr.Dinosaur wrote:
Dr.Dinosaur wrote:See I would disagree, I think lyrics means words from a language.
and phonemes are the sounds that make up words but are not words themselves.
(i think it would be different if they were onomonipeia(sp?)


I would say it is instrumental, much like jazz-scat, or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g


the second link should be this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWmOBX2K0WM


That's the way I was leaning as well. I feel that voices are instruments when making sounds that aren't an intelligible language, or aren't trying to convey something through the use of words.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby BasharOfTheAges » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:23 pm

CorpseGoddess wrote:
Dr.Dinosaur wrote:
Dr.Dinosaur wrote:See I would disagree, I think lyrics means words from a language.
and phonemes are the sounds that make up words but are not words themselves.
(i think it would be different if they were onomonipeia(sp?)


I would say it is instrumental, much like jazz-scat, or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bHCGMgir-g


the second link should be this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWmOBX2K0WM


That's the way I was leaning as well. I feel that voices are instruments when making sounds that aren't an intelligible language, or aren't trying to convey something through the use of words.

What about something like: ?
Spoiler :
That's gibberish they're spouting there FWIW. It's a trick for laying down vocals before you have them written. They had music and wanted something to sound like that..... and then never got around to putting actual lyrics in.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby JaddziaDax » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:33 pm

I would be conflicted as well... I probably wouldn't mark it as instrumental.

I guess it could depend on if you were going to lipsync or not... if you lipsync then it kills the idea of vocals as instruments...
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby Arigatomina » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:31 pm

To me, instrumental just means there are no lyrics. If they're not singing words and they're not mimicking words, then they're either instruments or sound effects. It's like having dogs howl along with the music. Would you count that as a "sung song" or an instrumental with unusual "instruments" and sound effects? I count them as instrumental. To me, a sung song is one with lyrics to be sung. Without lyrics, the voice is just another instrument to hit the notes with.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby kireblue » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:49 pm

I don't think that it qualifies as instrumental. If that was the case, then Levan Polkka would be instrumental as well. The song you posted really is just another form of scat.

And if anyone doesn't know about Levan Polkka, then shame on you :nono:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl-q5lzsxOg
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby EvaFan » Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:57 am

It's tough to reach a conclusion on this, makes me think of songs with just opera and hymn vocals set to music. They aren't words usually, sometimes they are latin or an ancient language but they are intended to do more than just be a part of the music sheet.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I don't think it even matters. People have won VCA's in the instrumental category when their were some type of vocals:



I'm sure their were others, just the only one I remembered off hand. A clear ruling would be not to allow vocals of any kind cause if you allow one to pass then there will be skepticism and arguements about what should and shouldn't be allowed after that.
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Re: Voices as instruments?

Postby Fall_Child42 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:38 pm

EvaFan wrote:A clear ruling would be not to allow vocals of any kind cause if you allow one to pass then there will be skepticism and arguements about what should and shouldn't be allowed after that.


Dispite it's popularity with pundits on news programs, the slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy and should be treated as such.
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