The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:12 pm

Castor Troy wrote:Even on youtube, amvs barely get any traffic unless you didn't upload it yourself. :roll:

There are cases of people reuploading other's AMVs and getting x-times more views (x going to hundreds, sometimes) than the original creator. And there are many of such cases - mainly because "The best AMVs I have ripped and reuploaded without authors' content" profile will usually get more viewers/views than "My three AMVs (of which one is good and the other two rather not)".
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Kai Stromler » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:31 pm

dokidoki wrote:
Qyot27 wrote:The quick bleed-out correlates to YouTube's rise to ubiquity, but I'm not sure if the post-'08 numbers support that continuing to be a reason.

I'd like to point out the Google Trends graph for Anime Music Videos again... If you can search for them on YouTube, why search for them on Google? Unfortunately I don't think YouTube has any such graphs/statistics.

Unfortunately you can't prove much from the graph for AMV since it can mean different things, though I wonder what causes the Christmas spikes.


Looking at that graph, and at 'anime' as well as 'anime music video' (without the plural), it could be argued that the decline we're seeing locally is part of a larger decline. 'anime music video' peaks in mid-2004 and declines thereafter; 'anime' starts to decline around the same time and hits its (higher) asymptotic bottom faster.

What's really interesting is that there's a bump through 2005 on both 'anime music video' and 'anime music videos' that does not appear in the 'anime' curve. What this looks like, at least to my untrained eye, like YouTube briefly regenerated a surge of interest in the hobby, but ultimately just pushed an ongoing decline out a couple months. The YouTube search stats are definitely the missing piece of the puzzle; if searches are going through there rather than Google -- on the assumption that Google bases Google Trends exclusively on searches through google.com rather than anything that touches the search engine -- then we may be losing viewers to the tube, rather than to apathy.

Of potential interest; 'peaked and declining' is a term that can be applied, to varying degrees of accuracy, to all three of these graphs as well.

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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby inthesto » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:32 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:"This is godix. He likes *censored to preserve sanity of the people*"


Well I was running under the assumption we'd spotlight people who would actually attract viewers.

Normally this would exclude me, but I'm the best looking cat here.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Corran » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:48 pm

dokidoki wrote:
Qyot27 wrote:The quick bleed-out correlates to YouTube's rise to ubiquity, but I'm not sure if the post-'08 numbers support that continuing to be a reason.

I'd like to point out the Google Trends graph for Anime Music Videos again... If you can search for them on YouTube, why search for them on Google? Unfortunately I don't think YouTube has any such graphs/statistics.

Unfortunately you can't prove much from the graph for AMV since it can mean different things, though I wonder what causes the Christmas spikes.

So I found the keyword search tools that advertisers can use on youtube and google to find what words are worth spending money on. They don't provide trend data but instead just current search volume figures.

This is for US/English searches. Numbers are searches per month. (I would get stats for worldwide searches but youtube doesn't enable that.)
Code: Select all
Term                  Google searches    Youtube searches
Anime Music Video                3600               25300
AMV                             74000             1255600   


The "amv" related suggested keywords that are returned for advertisers to buy on google.com are almost all related to the video format.

That same search term, "amv", on Youtube however is pretty much just anime music video related. 1 million+ searches per month... and that is not including the searches for anime music videos that exclude that term.

Edit: Corrected google figures, originally had posted the worldwide values (which were still less than the US/English-only youtube values).
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Kaream » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:11 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:Even on youtube, amvs barely get any traffic unless you didn't upload it yourself. :roll:

There are cases of people reuploading other's AMVs and getting x-times more views (x going to hundreds, sometimes) than the original creator. And there are many of such cases - mainly because "The best AMVs I have ripped and reuploaded without authors' content" profile will usually get more viewers/views than "My three AMVs (of which one is good and the other two rather not)".


Castor didn't you have an amv on youtube that had over 20 million views, I remember that precisely.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby 8bit_samurai » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:22 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:"Meet godix, thirty-nine years old. Fed up with life and the way things are going, he decides to make an AMV. But on his way to the Org, he has a sudden change of heart. And suddenly, his conscience comes into play..."


fify :asd:
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Arigatomina » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:41 pm

Castor Troy wrote:Ever since the dawn of youtube, new people have been less inclined to make amvs for some reason.

I think it's partly because anime fans can watch their anime online now. For anime fans, amvs were the quickest way to watch the best scenes out of a show without having to download/rent/buy the entire (often long) series. Once they could stream them, they stopped downloading full episodes as much (check the download stats for fansub groups). Then came the 'collage' vids, where people parse together just the best fight scenes, just the funniest comedy moments, just the best little clips from a long running series. For an anime fan, those collage vids are even better than amvs since you can hear the original audio. Those fans who were just using amvs to get their 'anime fix' have no need for them now. Without them to watch the 'all the best scenes' vids, fewer people bother making them. These were mostly the subpar vids, take all the best scenes and slap some LP on there and watch the all10s ops come in, but they were the most common amvs being uploaded here for years. I bet a lot of those editors followed their audience and are currently making the exact same vids, but with the original audio instead of music. ^^;
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Castor Troy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:22 pm

Kaream wrote:
Nya-chan Production wrote:
Castor Troy wrote:Even on youtube, amvs barely get any traffic unless you didn't upload it yourself. :roll:

There are cases of people reuploading other's AMVs and getting x-times more views (x going to hundreds, sometimes) than the original creator. And there are many of such cases - mainly because "The best AMVs I have ripped and reuploaded without authors' content" profile will usually get more viewers/views than "My three AMVs (of which one is good and the other two rather not)".


Castor didn't you have an amv on youtube that had over 20 million views, I remember that precisely.


Yeah, someones stole my Naruto Ball Z and got over 20 million views with it. I was able to get the offender to remove the video, but there are still people who've uploaded the video and have far more hits than my upload. :(
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Qyot27 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:32 pm

8bit_samurai wrote:
Nya-chan Production wrote:"Meet godix, thirty-nine years old. Fed up with life and the way things are going, he decides to make an AMV. But on his way to the Org, he has a sudden change of heart. And suddenly, his conscience comes into play..."


fify :asd:

The sad part of that is a good portion of the 'average' user age on here (or the Tube) won't get that reference, because they were likely too young to be listening to Eminem when that song came out.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby godix » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:52 pm

Nya-chan Production wrote:"Meet godix, thirty-nine years old. Fed up with life and the way things are going, he decides to make an AMV. But on his way to the Org, he has a sudden change of heart. And suddenly, his conscience comes into play..."

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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Panky » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:03 pm

Kionon wrote:
Panky wrote:It might be hard to believe due to the amount of people active on the forums, but there are around 1million registered users in the org (1026783 according to the main site) which, coming for a fan-made anime videos is quite amazing. But many have lost the path probably because there were many problems in knowing where to go, or what to do. And now like Corran said there are so many streaming sites that chances are they won't find this or won't think it's appealing (due to uploading process, commenting, or others).


Most of them are probably brief participants if participants at all, and hundreds of thousands of them haven't been back to the org in years. It is very disingenuous to take that number and try to make any kind of argument. It's a false number, representing many, many "phantom" users who do not really exist.


If you think about it for a while, even if they came here to watch one video, they could have stayed to watch another 10, participate on the website or even start editing themselves. And I don't think there's a big amount of spammers or double accounts in that number (although I'm not sure if registration from the forum has been for too long, since that can bring a 'bigger' amount of spammers). If the org were to make a big change in the website structure and the way it works, I guess you could send a mass mail to announce it and see what kind of reaction it brings to those that actually care and would login and see, right? It's a good userbase that could be brought back.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Nya-chan Production » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:07 pm

Panky wrote:
Kionon wrote:
Panky wrote:It might be hard to believe due to the amount of people active on the forums, but there are around 1million registered users in the org (1026783 according to the main site) which, coming for a fan-made anime videos is quite amazing. But many have lost the path probably because there were many problems in knowing where to go, or what to do. And now like Corran said there are so many streaming sites that chances are they won't find this or won't think it's appealing (due to uploading process, commenting, or others).


Most of them are probably brief participants if participants at all, and hundreds of thousands of them haven't been back to the org in years. It is very disingenuous to take that number and try to make any kind of argument. It's a false number, representing many, many "phantom" users who do not really exist.


If you think about it for a while, even if they came here to watch one video, they could have stayed to watch another 10, participate on the website or even start editing themselves. And I don't think there's a big amount of spammers or double accounts in that number (although I'm not sure if registration from the forum has been for too long, since that can bring a 'bigger' amount of spammers). If the org were to make a big change in the website structure and the way it works, I guess you could send a mass mail to announce it and see what kind of reaction it brings to those that actually care and would login and see, right? It's a good userbase that could be brought back.

If that were a case (watching other videos or editing) they would log in in these years. But I would not be against a mail - supposed the mails were working, ofc.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Kaream » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:54 pm

Castor Troy wrote:
Yeah, someones stole my Naruto Ball Z and got over 20 million views with it. I was able to get the offender to remove the video, but there are still people who've uploaded the video and have far more hits than my upload. :(


I'm still not over it, you should have told him to credit you in the description cause after all, it was the most viewed amv of all time. :P
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby OtakuGray » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:50 pm

I see a lot of editors who might not know everything about encoding or advanced editing techniques and instead of looking stuff up, they start moving to the org for help. The problem is...they have questions like HOW DO U UPLOAD and WHERE IS THE FORUMS?

Basically...i think we need to have more visiblity when it comes to things like the forums and the uploading, etc. Youtube has a BIG ASS YELLOW BUTTON for subbing people and im pretty sure the org could make the link to the forums more noticeable...or at least have it say "FORUMS HERE" or something . Maybe a link to uploading/uploading guides on the front page would be good as well.

Just putting out ideas.

I'm also not asking for us to cater to youtube. However, do keep in mind that youtube is a huge website with a lot of success and taking notes from a big, successful website is not always a bad idea.
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Re: The Org Redesign - What's wrong with the org?

Postby Kitsuner » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:38 am

Discount Menu wrote:
BasharOfTheAges wrote:We need better PR.


SOLUTION: Make Kitsuner the literal poster boy of the Org.

I'm Kitsuner, and I approve this message.
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